4 ms·

Cool. The strongest argument for a boring diet is your teeth.

by Larrikin 2y ago

a-french-anon 2y ago
"Boring"? Small lapsus, maybe? I mean, I know veganism is quite fashionable in some circles, but still.
CuriouslyC 2y ago
Yeah, the people who have a more diverse diet are the ones with a "boring" diet. Interesting logic there friend.
- ben_w 2y ago
  (1) Are meat diets really any more diverse? If you 1-1 substituted chicken for quorn, beef for soy, etc., that seems basically the same to me. (2) If cultivated meat becomes affordable, it's actually made of meat. The same stuff, just from a vat rather than a body. This can easily be much more diverse, because suddenly all the endangered species, a few extinct species, and human flesh(!) legally get on the menu.
  - CuriouslyC 2y ago
    If the variety of foods you consume is the diversity of your diet, how can a diet that willfully excludes a large number of possible choices be more diverse? Whatever diversity you think your diet has, add meat and eggs and it's more diverse. So you'd rather have a giant industrial facility with vats where people toil away in artificial light, than a beautiful natural field with wild grasses and animals who get to enjoy living a portion of their natural existences? Pretty ironic to think that to save cows from suffering, vegans would cause cows to become nearly extinct.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      > If the variety of foods you consume is the diversity of your diet, how can a diet that willfully excludes a large number of possible choices be more diverse? If you replace a D6 with a D20, you have a more diverse range of numbers. If you take a D6 and add 3 pips to each face, you don't have reduced diversity despite having excluded the numbers 1-3. I was replying to the claim of reduced diversity, so substituting is sufficient. Quorn and a few others would not be available options (at all, and certainly not in supermarkets with limited shelf space) if not from people trying to introduce new things to replace old things. > So you'd rather have a giant industrial facility with vats where people toil away in artificial light, than a beautiful natural field with wild grasses and animals who get to enjoy living a portion of their natural existences? First: You mentioned eggs before. Battery chickens are worse than your attempt to portray vats as dystopian. Second: We've had vats since we began deliberately making alcohol. "Toiling" implies it's a task people would be forced to do rather than, y'know, just a job. > Pretty ironic to think that to save cows from suffering, vegans would cause cows to become nearly extinct. First, some will be kept as pets. Second: even if they did as you say, the goal is to end suffering. I could do an equivalent and opposite rhetorical flourish to yours with cows, who are forcibly impregnated from bovine puberty to bovine equivalent of menopause, most of their children taken from them and slaughtered, and the whole time their udders ache from generations of selective breeding to our ends rather than their own, relieving themselves by walking into automatic milking machines. When they reach the end of their economically useful life, they too are shot in the head by a bolt gun intended to knock them unconscious — but if it doesn't, who gets blamed for the cow's suffering as they are hooked into a conveyor belt towards a chainsaw, watching helplessly as all who came before are ripped and sliced apart? I comsume milk and milk derivatives when I don't remember that; so probably not for the next week.
      - CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Suffering is literally foundational to life friend, you can't end it. The vegan utopia is a dead planet.
        aziaziazi 2y ago
        How do you manage to conclude vegan utopia being a dead planet ? Please develop your point, without explication it just look angry meaningless bashing. Veganism does not reject suffering but states that avoidable suffering is better to be avoided (opinion shared by many non vegans). An analogy is a dog in the middle of a street, if you can’t avoid it nobody will blame you to crash on him. If you can avoid, why would you kill that poor dog ? That’s what everybody do, not just vegans. The discovery of B12 source in the 50’s and modern nutrition understanding made avoidance of many suffering very easy.
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Because in order to not have suffering animals, you must control their populations, which in itself causes suffering. The only way to not have suffering is to not have life. I laugh at the thought of a vegan future where cow population control has become so extreme that they're an endangered species you can only find in zoos. As for wanting to reduce suffering, natural, pasture raised humane farming can achieve that. Vegans always make this "factory farming or nothing" argument which just seems silly on its head. Humans controlled animal populations and thinned herds for thousands of years in humane ways before the advent of factory farming, we just need to dial back the clock on our mechanized monstrosity.
        aziaziazi 2y ago
        > The only way to not have suffering is to not have life Did you read my previous posts ? Vegans don’t try to remove all suffering but to avoid cruelty. Not having cows won’t make each cow less suffering. But don’t worry for them to go extinct, they represent 35% of the world mammal biomass https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammals-birds-biomass https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammals-birds-biomass
msla 2y ago
No, the strongest argument is a mix of "DON'T WANNA!" and "U Mad, Bro?" It's the wonderful confection of oppositional defiant disorder and performative assholery that attempts to piss off the performer's mental model of some other person, usually for influencer points and political point-scoring.

Cool. The strongest argument for a boring diet is your teeth.

a-french-anon 2y ago

"Boring"? Small lapsus, maybe? I mean, I know veganism is quite fashionable in some circles, but still.

CuriouslyC 2y ago

Yeah, the people who have a more diverse diet are the ones with a "boring" diet. Interesting logic there friend.

ben_w 2y ago
(1) Are meat diets really any more diverse? If you 1-1 substituted chicken for quorn, beef for soy, etc., that seems basically the same to me. (2) If cultivated meat becomes affordable, it's actually made of meat. The same stuff, just from a vat rather than a body. This can easily be much more diverse, because suddenly all the endangered species, a few extinct species, and human flesh(!) legally get on the menu.
- CuriouslyC 2y ago
  If the variety of foods you consume is the diversity of your diet, how can a diet that willfully excludes a large number of possible choices be more diverse? Whatever diversity you think your diet has, add meat and eggs and it's more diverse. So you'd rather have a giant industrial facility with vats where people toil away in artificial light, than a beautiful natural field with wild grasses and animals who get to enjoy living a portion of their natural existences? Pretty ironic to think that to save cows from suffering, vegans would cause cows to become nearly extinct.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > If the variety of foods you consume is the diversity of your diet, how can a diet that willfully excludes a large number of possible choices be more diverse? If you replace a D6 with a D20, you have a more diverse range of numbers. If you take a D6 and add 3 pips to each face, you don't have reduced diversity despite having excluded the numbers 1-3. I was replying to the claim of reduced diversity, so substituting is sufficient. Quorn and a few others would not be available options (at all, and certainly not in supermarkets with limited shelf space) if not from people trying to introduce new things to replace old things. > So you'd rather have a giant industrial facility with vats where people toil away in artificial light, than a beautiful natural field with wild grasses and animals who get to enjoy living a portion of their natural existences? First: You mentioned eggs before. Battery chickens are worse than your attempt to portray vats as dystopian. Second: We've had vats since we began deliberately making alcohol. "Toiling" implies it's a task people would be forced to do rather than, y'know, just a job. > Pretty ironic to think that to save cows from suffering, vegans would cause cows to become nearly extinct. First, some will be kept as pets. Second: even if they did as you say, the goal is to end suffering. I could do an equivalent and opposite rhetorical flourish to yours with cows, who are forcibly impregnated from bovine puberty to bovine equivalent of menopause, most of their children taken from them and slaughtered, and the whole time their udders ache from generations of selective breeding to our ends rather than their own, relieving themselves by walking into automatic milking machines. When they reach the end of their economically useful life, they too are shot in the head by a bolt gun intended to knock them unconscious — but if it doesn't, who gets blamed for the cow's suffering as they are hooked into a conveyor belt towards a chainsaw, watching helplessly as all who came before are ripped and sliced apart? I comsume milk and milk derivatives when I don't remember that; so probably not for the next week.
    - CuriouslyC 2y ago
      Suffering is literally foundational to life friend, you can't end it. The vegan utopia is a dead planet.
      - aziaziazi 2y ago
        How do you manage to conclude vegan utopia being a dead planet ? Please develop your point, without explication it just look angry meaningless bashing. Veganism does not reject suffering but states that avoidable suffering is better to be avoided (opinion shared by many non vegans). An analogy is a dog in the middle of a street, if you can’t avoid it nobody will blame you to crash on him. If you can avoid, why would you kill that poor dog ? That’s what everybody do, not just vegans. The discovery of B12 source in the 50’s and modern nutrition understanding made avoidance of many suffering very easy.
        CuriouslyC 2y ago
        Because in order to not have suffering animals, you must control their populations, which in itself causes suffering. The only way to not have suffering is to not have life. I laugh at the thought of a vegan future where cow population control has become so extreme that they're an endangered species you can only find in zoos. As for wanting to reduce suffering, natural, pasture raised humane farming can achieve that. Vegans always make this "factory farming or nothing" argument which just seems silly on its head. Humans controlled animal populations and thinned herds for thousands of years in humane ways before the advent of factory farming, we just need to dial back the clock on our mechanized monstrosity.
        aziaziazi 2y ago
        > The only way to not have suffering is to not have life Did you read my previous posts ? Vegans don’t try to remove all suffering but to avoid cruelty. Not having cows won’t make each cow less suffering. But don’t worry for them to go extinct, they represent 35% of the world mammal biomass https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammals-birds-biomass https://ourworldindata.org/wild-mammals-birds-biomass

msla 2y ago

No, the strongest argument is a mix of "DON'T WANNA!" and "U Mad, Bro?" It's the wonderful confection of oppositional defiant disorder and performative assholery that attempts to piss off the performer's mental model of some other person, usually for influencer points and political point-scoring.