3 ms·

5-9 years is a "bad" spot for developers: devs are too skilled to be cheap or to accept "junior" job & pay, and have not enough experience to be a "jack of all

5-9 years is a "bad" spot for developers: devs are too skilled to be cheap or to accept "junior" job & pay, and have not enough experience to be a "jack of all trade" Here, in France, the job market is really slowing. More than before, companies are looking for cheap people... so they let go people with some experience and try to recruit engineer out-of-school to replace them. Obviously it doesn't work really well... neither for the juniors (too much pressure/expectation) nor for the rest of the team (knowledges & experience loss, need to teach the basics of the company to the new...) ChatGPT is sometimes a bit used by junior to help them "day to day"... but not really more than "google / stack overflow" 20 or 30 years ago.

Kallocain 2y ago
Interesting. I have the exact opposite experience. Being a Junior developper in france is hard right now. The profession got a lot of traction from the average french guy and not only nerds. In 2020 - 2022 Many training centers were teaching coding to people who were out of work because their industry was affected by covid (in France, studies are often free of charge and, in many cases, are even paid for by the government if you're working on your employability, so there's virtually no risk). This has led to an overload of junior developers on the market who aren't needed. I've given training courses for Dev-web-mobile and concepteur and I can tell you that out of 50 people, 5 have found a job. I also know a lot of masters students who want to find an alternance (work-study program) and can't find anything. Meanwhile, I have 10 years' experience and am called 3 times a week by headhunters when I upload my updated CV to a job search platform. I do agree that they want cheap people though. They rarely offer me more than 43k (which is ok in france in the region I live in but really not stunning either). I have friends that earn 70k-80k (really good in france) and they get called by headhunters for similar position but for 40k, its silly.
- angrydingo 2y ago
  Is this before or after tax?????
  - Kallocain 2y ago
    before tax. Employer costs for 43000 is about 60000. (So employer brut salary + Occupational injury and disease contributions, Unemployment contributions, Health care contributions, Family allowance contributions, retirement contributions)

Kallocain 2y ago

Interesting. I have the exact opposite experience. Being a Junior developper in france is hard right now. The profession got a lot of traction from the average french guy and not only nerds. In 2020 - 2022 Many training centers were teaching coding to people who were out of work because their industry was affected by covid (in France, studies are often free of charge and, in many cases, are even paid for by the government if you're working on your employability, so there's virtually no risk). This has led to an overload of junior developers on the market who aren't needed. I've given training courses for Dev-web-mobile and concepteur and I can tell you that out of 50 people, 5 have found a job. I also know a lot of masters students who want to find an alternance (work-study program) and can't find anything. Meanwhile, I have 10 years' experience and am called 3 times a week by headhunters when I upload my updated CV to a job search platform. I do agree that they want cheap people though. They rarely offer me more than 43k (which is ok in france in the region I live in but really not stunning either). I have friends that earn 70k-80k (really good in france) and they get called by headhunters for similar position but for 40k, its silly.

angrydingo 2y ago
Is this before or after tax?????
- Kallocain 2y ago
  before tax. Employer costs for 43000 is about 60000. (So employer brut salary + Occupational injury and disease contributions, Unemployment contributions, Health care contributions, Family allowance contributions, retirement contributions)