5 ms·

Well realistically if they have a chance to take on Crowdstrike they might not be wrong to walk away.

by qaq 2y ago

solatic 2y ago
On the one hand, even with the post-crash dip, CRWD has a $60.9 billion market cap, there's certainly marketshare to be taken from them. On the other hand, Wiz doesn't have an endpoint protection product (which is what failed for CRWD). They'd have to build one from scratch, which requires dedicated talent (engineers with kernel experience) that they might not have. If anyone is going after CRWD it'll be one of their other competitors.
- thriftwy 2y ago
  These numbers sound like a complete out of world fantasy to me. CRWD has a product that the user is not going to notice, best case. Now you said Wiz doesn't even have that one (what does it have then?) And their valuation is on par with the whole annually Western support of Ukraine. A country at war and with 30M people in it. That for some completely invisible product. It is also 17 millions of these most expensive brand new 155m artillery shells.
  - sofixa 2y ago
    Crowdstrike does endpoint security (user's PCs and servers too for checkbox ticking reasons). Wiz does cloud security. The same thing as Crowdstrike, but runs in your cloud environment (AWS/GCP/Azure) to detect issues there. Different customers, different profiles, different costs and prices.
    - thriftwy 2y ago
      I just don't see why that should have $23B market cap as opposed to $230M. A small team can challenge them with similar product.
      - hello_moto 2y ago
        Throw ... CRWD into that pool of Cloud workload competitor... https://www.crowdstrike.com/platform/cloud-security/cwpp/ https://www.crowdstrike.com/platform/cloud-security/cwpp/ That BSOD also impacting instances of Windows in AWS, Azure, and GCP.
      - wrsh07 2y ago
        Because they're making 500mm arr At the very least I would expect to see a 5 billion market cap, and if their growth rate is good (4 year old company, seems to be) it should be higher than that https://www.wsj.com/tech/how-startup-wiz-went-from-zero-to-a-possible-23-billion-sale-to-google-in-four-years-edb7c02b?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/tech/how-startup-wiz-went-from-zero-to-a...
  - pjc50 2y ago
    I think this is just a representation of where the money is in the world. Two things: - stocks are called stocks for a reason, they're not flows. $60bn is effectively an estimate of all future profits of the company over its lifetime - Crowdstrike generates a return by charging enterprises huge amounts of money to feel secure and tick security boxes (Actual security is questionable). Big enterprises have a lot of money to waste, but they feel they're getting a return on it - hardly anyone outside Ukraine gets a specific return from backing Ukraine. The same goes for all sorts of other worthy projects of the "end world hunger" kind - there's huge benefits, but not to the people actually spending the money.
    - falcor84 2y ago
      >stocks are called stocks for a reason, they're not flows Indeed, and of course we have Kalecki's famous quip that economics is "the science of confusing stocks with flows"
    - qaq 2y ago
      Pretending that being geopolitical superpower has no direct economic benefits is just silly. If USD lost the status of world's reserve currency it would have pretty catastrophic consequences for US economy.
      - pjc50 2y ago
        How do I, as an individual investor, capture the return of sending a shell to Ukraine? > If USD lost the status of world's reserve currency it would have pretty catastrophic consequences for US economy .. but for everyone at once. Collective action problem. You've argued why it's in the interest of the US government to tax people and send shells to Ukraine, but this is not an argument for Blackrock to divert VC funding to individual armored brigades.
        qaq 2y ago
        Very true
  - qaq 2y ago
    It's hard to make a leap from war to company valuation. Also Ukraine support is highly inflated number. If say Ukraine gets supplied with an old design MLRS rockets from US that was slated to be replaced in a few years and had very limited shelf life remaining the number counted is not the market cost of that old rocket (which would be a few 100K) but the 3 mil new top of the line replacement thing that US is producing for itself and Ukraine will never see.
borski 2y ago
Wiz does not do endpoint security. Different products entirely.
- deycallmeajay 2y ago
  Not yet…
- qaq 2y ago
  They certainly have resources to expand into that if needed
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    They’d be competing with Crowdstrike, SentinelOne, Microsoft Defender, and Trend Micro not to mention existing CNAPP/CSPM offerings that have an agent for cloud runtime security as well as other cloud runtime security focused startups. Adding a runtime security and EDR offering is not going to get them to a $23B valuation.
    - qaq 2y ago
      Sure and many others but outside of CrowdStrike most are not very competitive and being a fresh entry has it's benefits.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - borski 2y ago
        “Fresh” is the key word. You need to have fresh ideas, and I am certain Wiz doesn’t, as it relates to endpoint security. I agree Crowdstrike sucks. I’ve been beating that drum for the better part of a decade. Building a “new crowdstrike” by a different name won’t win.
        qaq 2y ago

Well realistically if they have a chance to take on Crowdstrike they might not be wrong to walk away.

by qaq 2y ago

Well realistically if they have a chance to take on Crowdstrike they might not be wrong to walk away.

On the one hand, even with the post-crash dip, CRWD has a $60.9 billion market cap, there's certainly marketshare to be taken from them. On the other hand, Wiz doesn't have an endpoint protection product (which is what failed for CRWD). They'd have to build one from scratch, which requires dedicated talent (engineers with kernel experience) that they might not have. If anyone is going after CRWD it'll be one of their other competitors.

thriftwy 2y ago
These numbers sound like a complete out of world fantasy to me. CRWD has a product that the user is not going to notice, best case. Now you said Wiz doesn't even have that one (what does it have then?) And their valuation is on par with the whole annually Western support of Ukraine. A country at war and with 30M people in it. That for some completely invisible product. It is also 17 millions of these most expensive brand new 155m artillery shells.
- sofixa 2y ago
  Crowdstrike does endpoint security (user's PCs and servers too for checkbox ticking reasons). Wiz does cloud security. The same thing as Crowdstrike, but runs in your cloud environment (AWS/GCP/Azure) to detect issues there. Different customers, different profiles, different costs and prices.
  - thriftwy 2y ago
    I just don't see why that should have $23B market cap as opposed to $230M. A small team can challenge them with similar product.
    - hello_moto 2y ago
      Throw ... CRWD into that pool of Cloud workload competitor... https://www.crowdstrike.com/platform/cloud-security/cwpp/ https://www.crowdstrike.com/platform/cloud-security/cwpp/ That BSOD also impacting instances of Windows in AWS, Azure, and GCP.
    - wrsh07 2y ago
      Because they're making 500mm arr At the very least I would expect to see a 5 billion market cap, and if their growth rate is good (4 year old company, seems to be) it should be higher than that https://www.wsj.com/tech/how-startup-wiz-went-from-zero-to-a-possible-23-billion-sale-to-google-in-four-years-edb7c02b?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/tech/how-startup-wiz-went-from-zero-to-a...
- pjc50 2y ago
  I think this is just a representation of where the money is in the world. Two things: - stocks are called stocks for a reason, they're not flows. $60bn is effectively an estimate of all future profits of the company over its lifetime - Crowdstrike generates a return by charging enterprises huge amounts of money to feel secure and tick security boxes (Actual security is questionable). Big enterprises have a lot of money to waste, but they feel they're getting a return on it - hardly anyone outside Ukraine gets a specific return from backing Ukraine. The same goes for all sorts of other worthy projects of the "end world hunger" kind - there's huge benefits, but not to the people actually spending the money.
  - falcor84 2y ago
    >stocks are called stocks for a reason, they're not flows Indeed, and of course we have Kalecki's famous quip that economics is "the science of confusing stocks with flows"
  - qaq 2y ago
    Pretending that being geopolitical superpower has no direct economic benefits is just silly. If USD lost the status of world's reserve currency it would have pretty catastrophic consequences for US economy.
    - pjc50 2y ago
      How do I, as an individual investor, capture the return of sending a shell to Ukraine? > If USD lost the status of world's reserve currency it would have pretty catastrophic consequences for US economy .. but for everyone at once. Collective action problem. You've argued why it's in the interest of the US government to tax people and send shells to Ukraine, but this is not an argument for Blackrock to divert VC funding to individual armored brigades.
      - qaq 2y ago
        Very true
- qaq 2y ago
  It's hard to make a leap from war to company valuation. Also Ukraine support is highly inflated number. If say Ukraine gets supplied with an old design MLRS rockets from US that was slated to be replaced in a few years and had very limited shelf life remaining the number counted is not the market cost of that old rocket (which would be a few 100K) but the 3 mil new top of the line replacement thing that US is producing for itself and Ukraine will never see.

borski 2y ago

Wiz does not do endpoint security. Different products entirely.

deycallmeajay 2y ago
Not yet…
qaq 2y ago
They certainly have resources to expand into that if needed
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  They’d be competing with Crowdstrike, SentinelOne, Microsoft Defender, and Trend Micro not to mention existing CNAPP/CSPM offerings that have an agent for cloud runtime security as well as other cloud runtime security focused startups. Adding a runtime security and EDR offering is not going to get them to a $23B valuation.
  - qaq 2y ago
    Sure and many others but outside of CrowdStrike most are not very competitive and being a fresh entry has it's benefits.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - borski 2y ago
      “Fresh” is the key word. You need to have fresh ideas, and I am certain Wiz doesn’t, as it relates to endpoint security. I agree Crowdstrike sucks. I’ve been beating that drum for the better part of a decade. Building a “new crowdstrike” by a different name won’t win.
      - qaq 2y ago