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Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or

Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.

galdosdi 2y ago
There's actually plenty of people like that out there, but probably not where you live.
- big-green-man 2y ago
  Oh there are plenty of people like that, yes. Well, minus the "makes good money but doesnt work a lot". But that's not table stakes.
  - galdosdi 2y ago
    Agreed, that's the one part that's not table stakes as not anyone can count on it. That's a nice to have and an aspiration. I almost called that out as a minor exception, but didn't because there's still something there in spirit, namely values even if not execution: For, it is table stakes to be generally decent at having a work ethic at all, and to also value family time (within the reasonable constraints of work), and thus to do your reasonable best within your means even if that means a pretty meager, but passable material lifestyle, and/or there's an attempt to consistently make time for family regularly every week, even if it's a little limited by work schedule. It only takes 10 minutes to tuck your child in and chat with them a little and if that's all you have most days because you're busy buying food and rent for them, that's OK. You have to eat and they have to eat, so it takes no extra time to eat together, even if it's a McDonald's or a can of beans and a loaf of bread, even if it doesn't work out every day. But it's generally seen as not very good to go too extreme in one direction or the other (borderline homeless / broken home due to not working at all or habitually quitting jobs rashly without better lined up isn't OK, and "working rich" dad who never sees the kids ever and seems disinterested the one time he has an hour once week also isn't OK) A similar example of values being more important than execution, is that nothing stops a very uneducated parent from highly valuing education (and in America, this is a lot more common in Hispanic, Jewish[1], and Asian cultures, for example) and pushing their child to exceed their own meager achievement. The fact that the parent may never be able to cogently discuss the things the kid is learning once they get past elementary school doesn't really stop a darned thing. The palpable incredible pride says it all. Contrast this to the cultures where kids who try to achieve are seen as traitors and getting too big for their britches. I was very sad to know some young men in Arkansas when I went to college there who struggled with these mixed expectations, coming from a community where they felt that they would be borderline ostracized for rising "so much higher" than they started. This was one of the things in Hillbilly Elegy, which I recently read, that really rang true, even if some others seemed questionable or played up for bestseller appeal (the violent criminal uncle tall tales come to mind -- nugget of truth in them or not, they were obviously selected from the available universe of lore to paint a certain engaging picture-story) Values matter, even when they can't be realized. Rules matter, even when you're getting away with breaking them. Hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug, contrary to popular belief. Even an ill-observed rule imposes clear costs on its avoidance, etc. [1] Who can forget the line in Fiddler on the Roof, where the poor working father protagonist is fantasizing about being rich, but after singing about big houses and fancy clothes, settles on time to get educated as the greatest luxury he pines for? > "If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack > To sit in the synagogue and pray > Maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall > And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day > That would be the sweetest thing of all"
squigz 2y ago
My dude, if you think that's the 'perfect adult', whew... That is, absolutely, the bare minimum for an adult friend, let alone a romantic partner. Let's just break this down to be clear as to what you think the 'perfect adult' is: - Being emotionally available - participating in chores - providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time - being reasonably well-read - good conversationalist
- big-green-man 2y ago
  I don't know why youre quoting "perfect adult", I didn't use that term once. I said "ideal middle class man." And it is. Every reasonable woman wants that, every man wants to be at least that, yet most men don't check every one of those boxes, particularly being able to provide a comfortable lifestyle without working all the time, that one is maybe 10% of men. A good starting goal? Sure. Table stakes? Good luck.
  - squigz 2y ago
    You literally did. > Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.
    - big-green-man 2y ago
      Alright, so you win that one lol. I glossed over my own comment. Still, I was using the term very obviously hyperbolically, and still referred explicitly to the "ideal middle class man." So let's do something. What is the perfect adult? how does the perfect adult, not billionaire level or something like that but perfect middle class man, differ from your table stakes? I can guess tall and incredibly handsome, but beyond that, how is he better than your bare minimum requirements?
      - squigz 2y ago

galdosdi 2y ago

There's actually plenty of people like that out there, but probably not where you live.

big-green-man 2y ago
Oh there are plenty of people like that, yes. Well, minus the "makes good money but doesnt work a lot". But that's not table stakes.
- galdosdi 2y ago
  Agreed, that's the one part that's not table stakes as not anyone can count on it. That's a nice to have and an aspiration. I almost called that out as a minor exception, but didn't because there's still something there in spirit, namely values even if not execution: For, it is table stakes to be generally decent at having a work ethic at all, and to also value family time (within the reasonable constraints of work), and thus to do your reasonable best within your means even if that means a pretty meager, but passable material lifestyle, and/or there's an attempt to consistently make time for family regularly every week, even if it's a little limited by work schedule. It only takes 10 minutes to tuck your child in and chat with them a little and if that's all you have most days because you're busy buying food and rent for them, that's OK. You have to eat and they have to eat, so it takes no extra time to eat together, even if it's a McDonald's or a can of beans and a loaf of bread, even if it doesn't work out every day. But it's generally seen as not very good to go too extreme in one direction or the other (borderline homeless / broken home due to not working at all or habitually quitting jobs rashly without better lined up isn't OK, and "working rich" dad who never sees the kids ever and seems disinterested the one time he has an hour once week also isn't OK) A similar example of values being more important than execution, is that nothing stops a very uneducated parent from highly valuing education (and in America, this is a lot more common in Hispanic, Jewish[1], and Asian cultures, for example) and pushing their child to exceed their own meager achievement. The fact that the parent may never be able to cogently discuss the things the kid is learning once they get past elementary school doesn't really stop a darned thing. The palpable incredible pride says it all. Contrast this to the cultures where kids who try to achieve are seen as traitors and getting too big for their britches. I was very sad to know some young men in Arkansas when I went to college there who struggled with these mixed expectations, coming from a community where they felt that they would be borderline ostracized for rising "so much higher" than they started. This was one of the things in Hillbilly Elegy, which I recently read, that really rang true, even if some others seemed questionable or played up for bestseller appeal (the violent criminal uncle tall tales come to mind -- nugget of truth in them or not, they were obviously selected from the available universe of lore to paint a certain engaging picture-story) Values matter, even when they can't be realized. Rules matter, even when you're getting away with breaking them. Hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug, contrary to popular belief. Even an ill-observed rule imposes clear costs on its avoidance, etc. [1] Who can forget the line in Fiddler on the Roof, where the poor working father protagonist is fantasizing about being rich, but after singing about big houses and fancy clothes, settles on time to get educated as the greatest luxury he pines for? > "If I were rich, I'd have the time that I lack > To sit in the synagogue and pray > Maybe have a seat by the Eastern wall > And I'd discuss the holy books with the learned men, several hours every day > That would be the sweetest thing of all"

squigz 2y ago

My dude, if you think that's the 'perfect adult', whew... That is, absolutely, the bare minimum for an adult friend, let alone a romantic partner. Let's just break this down to be clear as to what you think the 'perfect adult' is: - Being emotionally available - participating in chores - providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time - being reasonably well-read - good conversationalist

big-green-man 2y ago
I don't know why youre quoting "perfect adult", I didn't use that term once. I said "ideal middle class man." And it is. Every reasonable woman wants that, every man wants to be at least that, yet most men don't check every one of those boxes, particularly being able to provide a comfortable lifestyle without working all the time, that one is maybe 10% of men. A good starting goal? Sure. Table stakes? Good luck.
- squigz 2y ago
  You literally did. > Being the perfect adult is table stakes? This description is the ideal middle class man. If that's table stakes to you, either you've got one hell of a catch or you've got a few more years left before you settle. Most adults, full grown adults, men and women, don't meet all those requirements. I do, most don't.
  - big-green-man 2y ago
    Alright, so you win that one lol. I glossed over my own comment. Still, I was using the term very obviously hyperbolically, and still referred explicitly to the "ideal middle class man." So let's do something. What is the perfect adult? how does the perfect adult, not billionaire level or something like that but perfect middle class man, differ from your table stakes? I can guess tall and incredibly handsome, but beyond that, how is he better than your bare minimum requirements?
    - squigz 2y ago