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There was recently[1] some talk about how the 13th/14th gen mobile chips also had similar issues, though Intel insisted it's something else. Will be interestin

There was recently[1] some talk about how the 13th/14th gen mobile chips also had similar issues, though Intel insisted it's something else. Will be interesting to see how that pans out. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026123 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41026123

tardy_one 2y ago
For server CPUs there's not a similar problem or they realize server purchasers may be less willing to tolerate it? I'm not all that thrilled with the prospect of buying Intels especially when wondering about waiting to 5 year out replacement compared to a few generations ago, but AMD server choices can be a bit limited and I'm not really sure how to evaluate if there may be increasing surprises more across the board.
- sirn 2y ago
  Are you talking about Xeon Scalable? Although they share the same core design as the desktop counterpart (Xeon Scalable 4th Gen shares the same Golden Cove as 12th Gen, Xeon Scalable 5th Gen shares the same Raptor Cove as 13th/14th Gen), they're very different from the desktop counterpart (monolithic vs tile/EMIB-based, ring bus vs mesh, power gate vs FIVR), and often running in a more conservative configuration (lower max clock, more conservative V/F curves, etc.). There has been a rumor about Xeon Scalable 5th Gen having the same issue, but it's more of a gossip rather than a data point. The issue does happen with desktop chips that are being used in a server context when pairing with workstation chipset such as W680. However, there haven't been any reports of Xeon E-2400/E-3400 (which is essentially a desktop chip repurposed as a server) with C266 having these issues, though it may be because there hasn't been a large deployment of these chips on the server just yet (or even if there are, it's still too early to tell). Do note that even without this particular issue, Xeon Scalable 4th Gen (Sapphire Rapids) is not a good chip (speaking from experience, I'm running w-3495x). It has plenty of issues such as slow clock ramp, high latency, high idle power draw, and the list goes on. While Xeon Scalable 5th Gen (Emerald Rapids) seems to have fixed most of these issues, Zen 4 EPYC is still a much better choice.
tedunangst 2y ago
The mobile issue seems more anecdote than data? Almost as if people on Reddit heard the 13/14 CPUs were bad, then their laptop crashed, and they decided "it happened to me too".
- magicalhippo 2y ago
  Well it's not just[1] redditors from what I can gather: Now Alderon Games reports that Raptor Lake crashes impact Intel's 13th and 14th-Gen processors in laptops as well. "Yes we have several laptops that have failed with the same crashes. It's just slightly more rare then the desktop CPU faults," the dev posted. These are the guys who publicly claimed[2] Intel sold defective chips based on the desktop chips crashing. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/dev-reports-that-intels-laptop-cpus-are-also-crashing-several-laptops-have-suffered-similar-crashes-in-testing https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/dev-reports-... [2]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/game-publisher-claims-100-crash-rate-with-intel-cpus-alderon-games-says-company-sells-defective-13th-and-14th-gen-chips https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/game-publish...
  - sirn 2y ago
    The problem may exist, but Alderon Games' report on the mobile chip is more of an anecdote here because there's not enough data points (unlike their desktop claims), and the only SKU they give (13900HX) is actually a desktop chip in a mobile package (BGA instead of LGA, so we're back into the original issue). So in the end, even with Alderon's claims, there's really not enough data points to come to a conclusion on the mobile side of things.
    - Sakos 2y ago
      Why are you downplaying it too? > "The laptops crash in the exact same way as the desktop parts including workloads under Unreal Engine, decompression, ycruncher or similar. Laptop chips we have seen failing include but not limited to 13900HX etc.," Cassells said. > "Intel seems to be down playing the issues here most likely due to the expensive costs related to BGA rework and possible harm to OEMs and Partners," he continued. "We have seen these crashes on Razer, MSI, Asus Laptops and similar used by developers in our studio to work on the game. The crash reporting data for my game shows a huge amount of laptops that could be having issues." https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1e13ipy/intel_is_selling_defective_1314th_gen_cpus/lcyythb/ https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1e13ipy/intel_is_...

tardy_one 2y ago

For server CPUs there's not a similar problem or they realize server purchasers may be less willing to tolerate it? I'm not all that thrilled with the prospect of buying Intels especially when wondering about waiting to 5 year out replacement compared to a few generations ago, but AMD server choices can be a bit limited and I'm not really sure how to evaluate if there may be increasing surprises more across the board.

sirn 2y ago
Are you talking about Xeon Scalable? Although they share the same core design as the desktop counterpart (Xeon Scalable 4th Gen shares the same Golden Cove as 12th Gen, Xeon Scalable 5th Gen shares the same Raptor Cove as 13th/14th Gen), they're very different from the desktop counterpart (monolithic vs tile/EMIB-based, ring bus vs mesh, power gate vs FIVR), and often running in a more conservative configuration (lower max clock, more conservative V/F curves, etc.). There has been a rumor about Xeon Scalable 5th Gen having the same issue, but it's more of a gossip rather than a data point. The issue does happen with desktop chips that are being used in a server context when pairing with workstation chipset such as W680. However, there haven't been any reports of Xeon E-2400/E-3400 (which is essentially a desktop chip repurposed as a server) with C266 having these issues, though it may be because there hasn't been a large deployment of these chips on the server just yet (or even if there are, it's still too early to tell). Do note that even without this particular issue, Xeon Scalable 4th Gen (Sapphire Rapids) is not a good chip (speaking from experience, I'm running w-3495x). It has plenty of issues such as slow clock ramp, high latency, high idle power draw, and the list goes on. While Xeon Scalable 5th Gen (Emerald Rapids) seems to have fixed most of these issues, Zen 4 EPYC is still a much better choice.

tedunangst 2y ago

The mobile issue seems more anecdote than data? Almost as if people on Reddit heard the 13/14 CPUs were bad, then their laptop crashed, and they decided "it happened to me too".

magicalhippo 2y ago
Well it's not just[1] redditors from what I can gather: Now Alderon Games reports that Raptor Lake crashes impact Intel's 13th and 14th-Gen processors in laptops as well. "Yes we have several laptops that have failed with the same crashes. It's just slightly more rare then the desktop CPU faults," the dev posted. These are the guys who publicly claimed[2] Intel sold defective chips based on the desktop chips crashing. [1]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/dev-reports-that-intels-laptop-cpus-are-also-crashing-several-laptops-have-suffered-similar-crashes-in-testing https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/dev-reports-... [2]: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/game-publisher-claims-100-crash-rate-with-intel-cpus-alderon-games-says-company-sells-defective-13th-and-14th-gen-chips https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/game-publish...
- sirn 2y ago
  The problem may exist, but Alderon Games' report on the mobile chip is more of an anecdote here because there's not enough data points (unlike their desktop claims), and the only SKU they give (13900HX) is actually a desktop chip in a mobile package (BGA instead of LGA, so we're back into the original issue). So in the end, even with Alderon's claims, there's really not enough data points to come to a conclusion on the mobile side of things.
  - Sakos 2y ago
    Why are you downplaying it too? > "The laptops crash in the exact same way as the desktop parts including workloads under Unreal Engine, decompression, ycruncher or similar. Laptop chips we have seen failing include but not limited to 13900HX etc.," Cassells said. > "Intel seems to be down playing the issues here most likely due to the expensive costs related to BGA rework and possible harm to OEMs and Partners," he continued. "We have seen these crashes on Razer, MSI, Asus Laptops and similar used by developers in our studio to work on the game. The crash reporting data for my game shows a huge amount of laptops that could be having issues." https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1e13ipy/intel_is_selling_defective_1314th_gen_cpus/lcyythb/ https://old.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1e13ipy/intel_is_...