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I see more single mothers here in Africa than i have ever come across in western countries. Lack of work leaves men unable to care for their family causing them

I see more single mothers here in Africa than i have ever come across in western countries. Lack of work leaves men unable to care for their family causing them to simply give up and walk away, leaving the mothers to fend for themselves. I see no supportive structures, discipline or culture to counteract that. I haven't been here long, so my impressions are not founded on a lot of experience, but it looks like what is happening is that the villages are unable to sustain themselves forcing people to leave the village and seek their fortune elsewhere, which causes just as much of a breakdown of family and social structures as it does in the west.

rramadass 2y ago
I would wager that in terms of percentage of population the situation in Africa is not that bad as in Western countries. Some very poor countries may suffer to a larger degree but not Africa as a whole. To give a counter example, take a look at India and China, the two most populous nations. In both cases there is a huge migration from rural to urban centers but Social expectations, Cultural norms, Family structure and Economic necessities give youngsters something to strive for. In China in particular; you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City. And yet the situation is not dire like what is being painted in the article in spite of many problems. In India the rural to urban migration is not that vast compared to China so the effects of Family/Social/Cultural structures are even more stronger. Freedom/Progress needs to be balanced against Structure/Discipline for any Society to thrive. This is the reason all societies from ancient times always put Family/Clans at the center and enforced Discipline via Religious diktats/Cultural norms/Social mores etc. While many of these should be revised in the modern context their complete dismantling has left many adrift and in a existential crisis.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  > In China in particular; you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City. And yet the situation is not dire like what is being painted in the article in spite of many problems. This sounds like its own kind of dire.
  - rramadass 2y ago
    Absolutely. But what is interesting is that the family structure doesn't breakdown. The Parents work themselves to the bone and send money back to help their Parents and Children in the village. The Grand Parents take care of the Grand Children. When the children grow up, depending upon the Parent's situation in the City, they move to the city to live with their parents and study/grow up there or if they are already at the employable age join the workforce in the city. And through it all they hang together.
    - calf 2y ago
      But that's just an Industrial-stage family structure. Loosely speaking. It's not that interesting and not fair to compare that with post-industrial neoliberal societies in the West. (I'm East Asian American.)
      - rramadass 2y ago
        I am not quite sure whether your comment is sarcasm or not. But assuming it is not, this is exactly what i wanted to point out. Societies have changed but the fundamental Human values have not and so that should have been maintained in some form during the process of change. We are Biological organisms with the same desires/fears/emotions/feelings as our forefathers but only the societal context has changed. While we don't have to go full retrograde nor should we go to the other extreme of negating all structures which have brought us to this point. It is in this light that one should look at all current-day "social progress" issues.
        calf 2y ago
        It's your opinion what changes are too much, but your metaargument cannot answer that question which makes it sophistry to use the metaargument to argue for political moderation. Also, find a scientist who agrees with you that human values are historically invariant. It's just not true. What's more likely is you are conservative and misusing logical arguments to rationalize your actual political opinion. It's ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
  > you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City Sounds lovely!
  - rramadass 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41042330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41042330
- KptMarchewa 2y ago
  Mate, China's demographic situation is extremely worse than any western country. If anything, cultural shift has been way more extreme and fast in China than in the west.

rramadass 2y ago

I would wager that in terms of percentage of population the situation in Africa is not that bad as in Western countries. Some very poor countries may suffer to a larger degree but not Africa as a whole. To give a counter example, take a look at India and China, the two most populous nations. In both cases there is a huge migration from rural to urban centers but Social expectations, Cultural norms, Family structure and Economic necessities give youngsters something to strive for. In China in particular; you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City. And yet the situation is not dire like what is being painted in the article in spite of many problems. In India the rural to urban migration is not that vast compared to China so the effects of Family/Social/Cultural structures are even more stronger. Freedom/Progress needs to be balanced against Structure/Discipline for any Society to thrive. This is the reason all societies from ancient times always put Family/Clans at the center and enforced Discipline via Religious diktats/Cultural norms/Social mores etc. While many of these should be revised in the modern context their complete dismantling has left many adrift and in a existential crisis.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
> In China in particular; you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City. And yet the situation is not dire like what is being painted in the article in spite of many problems. This sounds like its own kind of dire.
- rramadass 2y ago
  Absolutely. But what is interesting is that the family structure doesn't breakdown. The Parents work themselves to the bone and send money back to help their Parents and Children in the village. The Grand Parents take care of the Grand Children. When the children grow up, depending upon the Parent's situation in the City, they move to the city to live with their parents and study/grow up there or if they are already at the employable age join the workforce in the city. And through it all they hang together.
  - calf 2y ago
    But that's just an Industrial-stage family structure. Loosely speaking. It's not that interesting and not fair to compare that with post-industrial neoliberal societies in the West. (I'm East Asian American.)
    - rramadass 2y ago
      I am not quite sure whether your comment is sarcasm or not. But assuming it is not, this is exactly what i wanted to point out. Societies have changed but the fundamental Human values have not and so that should have been maintained in some form during the process of change. We are Biological organisms with the same desires/fears/emotions/feelings as our forefathers but only the societal context has changed. While we don't have to go full retrograde nor should we go to the other extreme of negating all structures which have brought us to this point. It is in this light that one should look at all current-day "social progress" issues.
      - calf 2y ago
        It's your opinion what changes are too much, but your metaargument cannot answer that question which makes it sophistry to use the metaargument to argue for political moderation. Also, find a scientist who agrees with you that human values are historically invariant. It's just not true. What's more likely is you are conservative and misusing logical arguments to rationalize your actual political opinion. It's ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.
bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago
> you have entire villages populated only by Grand parents and Grand children because the Parents are away working in the City Sounds lovely!
- rramadass 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41042330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41042330
KptMarchewa 2y ago
Mate, China's demographic situation is extremely worse than any western country. If anything, cultural shift has been way more extreme and fast in China than in the west.