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> My problem is that I quite like working with other people. It’s really hard to build relationships with other human beings when not in the same physical locat

> My problem is that I quite like working with other people. It’s really hard to build relationships with other human beings when not in the same physical location- sharing jokes, lunches, walks and just shouting across the room about the weird code change I am a remote worker, and I quite like working with other people, too, which is why I do it. Walking and shouting don't really factor into it, but we do share plenty of jokes. That is why I totally understand and agree with all of what you said, except for the part where you're shouting in a room, especially one in which others are trying to work, or worse, speak in an online meeting from their desk with shouting in the background. That seems pretty disruptive and inappropriate when you could just walk over, or better yet, send a message. To me, that behavior is tantamount to asserting that what you have to say is more important than everything everyone else is doing. If there's a fire, maybe it is. To be sure, my coworkers and I are friends, but I have many more outside of work, and deeper friendships besides. Are you describing your conditions for amicably and effectively working with coworkers, or are you describing your conditions for making coworkers into your friends? Sometimes folks desire deeper work friendships as a substitute for friendships outside of work.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
>To me, that behavior is tantamount to asserting that what you have to say is more important than everything everyone else is doing. If there's a fire, maybe it is. depends on your workplace. There were dedicated quiet rooms workers would go in when they really needed to focus. Meanwhile, being in the lounge was a sign for a more lax work period. You don't really get that social messaging, especially since some people never update their status, or worse yet are eternally "do not disturb". >but I have many more outside of work, and deeper friendships besides...Sometimes folks desire deeper work friendships as a substitute for friendships outside of work. I don't. Only thing harder than befriending remote coworkers is trying to keep up with flaky meetup members you see once and never again. If you didn't stay in physical contact with schoolgoers, I have no clue how men c. 2018+ actually make friends post college. Maybe if I played sports it'd be different. but sure, if you could solve this conundrum (I've tried for some 6 years now) I could easily concede to remote work.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  > You don't really get that social messaging, especially since some people never update their status, or worse yet are eternally "do not disturb". My experience is, the "social messaging" isn't necessary there: you can just send a message via slack or what not, and wait for the recipient to reply. If they have notifications disabled, you can wait for them to come to a stopping point enough to check their messages and reply. After all, such a configuration is generally implemented to avoid the in-person or digital version of someone shouting for immediate attention. > Only thing harder than befriending remote coworkers is trying to keep up with flaky meetup members you see once and never again Having coworkers on friendly terms is nice, but it sounds like you might be falling into the trap I mentioned, of seeking deep friendship there, rather than outside of work. This misaligns incentives: whereas someone might want an RTO just so they can more easily befriend people (a captive audience, no less), coworkers might just want an amicable, effective working relationship, which can be had in-person or remotely. The latter is more important for a company to consider. > if you could solve this conundrum (I've tried for some 6 years now) Sure, I've solved it and don't mind helping you do the same! I don't know what all you've tried, so this list may duplicate some of your efforts: - Go to one meetup consistently? It's unlikely that all of them have so much churn that you never see a single person twice after going several times. - When you meet someone at a meetup, ask them questions that show you are genuinely interested in them as a person. If you want further friendship, ask them to hang out sometime later that week (yes, a play date). Take down their phone number, reach out. - Ask them to hang out again, after you have hung out previously. Repeat this process. - Repeat this process for many potential friends. - Try Bumble BFF? The message here is that friendship is dating anyways, and you have to show someone you want to have the kind of relationship that you genuinely seek, and always be closing, and consider it a numbers game, because not everyone wants to be in a relationship.

johnnyanmac 2y ago

>To me, that behavior is tantamount to asserting that what you have to say is more important than everything everyone else is doing. If there's a fire, maybe it is. depends on your workplace. There were dedicated quiet rooms workers would go in when they really needed to focus. Meanwhile, being in the lounge was a sign for a more lax work period. You don't really get that social messaging, especially since some people never update their status, or worse yet are eternally "do not disturb". >but I have many more outside of work, and deeper friendships besides...Sometimes folks desire deeper work friendships as a substitute for friendships outside of work. I don't. Only thing harder than befriending remote coworkers is trying to keep up with flaky meetup members you see once and never again. If you didn't stay in physical contact with schoolgoers, I have no clue how men c. 2018+ actually make friends post college. Maybe if I played sports it'd be different. but sure, if you could solve this conundrum (I've tried for some 6 years now) I could easily concede to remote work.

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
> You don't really get that social messaging, especially since some people never update their status, or worse yet are eternally "do not disturb". My experience is, the "social messaging" isn't necessary there: you can just send a message via slack or what not, and wait for the recipient to reply. If they have notifications disabled, you can wait for them to come to a stopping point enough to check their messages and reply. After all, such a configuration is generally implemented to avoid the in-person or digital version of someone shouting for immediate attention. > Only thing harder than befriending remote coworkers is trying to keep up with flaky meetup members you see once and never again Having coworkers on friendly terms is nice, but it sounds like you might be falling into the trap I mentioned, of seeking deep friendship there, rather than outside of work. This misaligns incentives: whereas someone might want an RTO just so they can more easily befriend people (a captive audience, no less), coworkers might just want an amicable, effective working relationship, which can be had in-person or remotely. The latter is more important for a company to consider. > if you could solve this conundrum (I've tried for some 6 years now) Sure, I've solved it and don't mind helping you do the same! I don't know what all you've tried, so this list may duplicate some of your efforts: - Go to one meetup consistently? It's unlikely that all of them have so much churn that you never see a single person twice after going several times. - When you meet someone at a meetup, ask them questions that show you are genuinely interested in them as a person. If you want further friendship, ask them to hang out sometime later that week (yes, a play date). Take down their phone number, reach out. - Ask them to hang out again, after you have hung out previously. Repeat this process. - Repeat this process for many potential friends. - Try Bumble BFF? The message here is that friendship is dating anyways, and you have to show someone you want to have the kind of relationship that you genuinely seek, and always be closing, and consider it a numbers game, because not everyone wants to be in a relationship.