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I think people simply do not want to have kids as much as they used to. Usually these topics emerge with the same three major factors for why people aren't hav

I think people simply do not want to have kids as much as they used to. Usually these topics emerge with the same three major factors for why people aren't having children: 1. Can't afford to raise a child 2. Concerns about the future state of the world, e.g. climate change 3. A huge loss of freedom Anecdotally, I personally feel like #3 is by far the biggest reason why people aren't having children. Every time someone in my peer group (mid 30s) announces that they are having a child, there's widespread acknowledgement that we are going to see MUCH less of them from now on. This is a tradeoff, and those who really want children will still choose to have children. But for those who are deeply engaged in something else -- hobbies, social life, career -- or simply enjoy a low-stress life, having children would upend that. Modern living gives a lot of opportunities to go really deep into a few different facets of life, but most people have to limit that depth once they have children. It doesn't help that modern child raising seems to be endlessly shuffling children from one structured activity to another, with little help from a broader social circle. Plus, there's less social pressure than ever to have children. If many of your peers aren't having kids, you're not the odd one out anymore. So I think many people of childbearing age today see a much higher cost in childraising than what people saw in the past. If they aren't especially enthusiastic about raising children in particular, is it a surprise that many are choosing not to?

red-iron-pine 2y ago
#3 is because of #1. money buys the freedom. "broader social circles" are just a low-cost substitute; aka Grandma does the daycare. You'd be surprised how easy it is to have a kid when you can afford daycare, lots of toys to keep Junior busy, and day-to-day life conveniences that make the rest easy to manage. i.e. freedom isn't an issue because I can send kiddo to summer camp, after school programs, and dance classes. and it's easy to snag a pizza or tacos on the way home from grabbing them from said events. the wee one sleeps really well with white noise generators and temperature controls for the room, and has lots of books to play with (plus a yard + the dogs) when she's not sleeping. it's the money.
- RestlessMind 2y ago
  > it's the money. Richest societies are having the fewest babies and poorest people are having the most. So this doesn't ring true.
  - cherry_tree 2y ago
    Forbes says “ultra-rich have an average of 2.3 children, above the recent 1.93 average for average Americans” https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaebarnes/2022/07/10/elon-musk-isnt-the-only-billionaire-with-9-plus-kids-meet-the-us-richest-people-with-the-most-children https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaebarnes/2022/07/10/elon-mus...
    - RestlessMind 2y ago
      I am going by this data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate#Country_ranking_by_most_recent_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer... Countries with the highest TFR are also generally the poor ones.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        The relevant dynamics change between an average American woman versus a top 10% American woman compared to any American versus an average woman in a poorer country. Specifically, women's rights, financial independence, and general safety if choosing to forego having many children or even entering into a relationship. The women in the poorest countries are having more kids due to not being able to have fewer kids. Average American women have fewer kids than top 10% Americans due to wanting more resources per child.
        RestlessMind 2y ago
        > The women in the poorest countries are having more kids due to not being able to have fewer kids. Citation needed for that claim. While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I have also seen other plausible hypothesis that kids are seen as safety nets in the poorer society, or a possible escape hatch out of poverty even if one of them gets lucky in life. So having more kids might be a rational choice for poor people. I do not have data either way about motivations for women in poor societies to have kids.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

#3 is because of #1. money buys the freedom. "broader social circles" are just a low-cost substitute; aka Grandma does the daycare. You'd be surprised how easy it is to have a kid when you can afford daycare, lots of toys to keep Junior busy, and day-to-day life conveniences that make the rest easy to manage. i.e. freedom isn't an issue because I can send kiddo to summer camp, after school programs, and dance classes. and it's easy to snag a pizza or tacos on the way home from grabbing them from said events. the wee one sleeps really well with white noise generators and temperature controls for the room, and has lots of books to play with (plus a yard + the dogs) when she's not sleeping. it's the money.

RestlessMind 2y ago
> it's the money. Richest societies are having the fewest babies and poorest people are having the most. So this doesn't ring true.
- cherry_tree 2y ago
  Forbes says “ultra-rich have an average of 2.3 children, above the recent 1.93 average for average Americans” https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaebarnes/2022/07/10/elon-musk-isnt-the-only-billionaire-with-9-plus-kids-meet-the-us-richest-people-with-the-most-children https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenaebarnes/2022/07/10/elon-mus...
  - RestlessMind 2y ago
    I am going by this data: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fertility_rate#Country_ranking_by_most_recent_year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer... Countries with the highest TFR are also generally the poor ones.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      The relevant dynamics change between an average American woman versus a top 10% American woman compared to any American versus an average woman in a poorer country. Specifically, women's rights, financial independence, and general safety if choosing to forego having many children or even entering into a relationship. The women in the poorest countries are having more kids due to not being able to have fewer kids. Average American women have fewer kids than top 10% Americans due to wanting more resources per child.
      - RestlessMind 2y ago
        > The women in the poorest countries are having more kids due to not being able to have fewer kids. Citation needed for that claim. While I don't necessarily disagree with you, I have also seen other plausible hypothesis that kids are seen as safety nets in the poorer society, or a possible escape hatch out of poverty even if one of them gets lucky in life. So having more kids might be a rational choice for poor people. I do not have data either way about motivations for women in poor societies to have kids.