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This is simply not true. Most startup founders are genuinely trying to build something that has value to the economy, and therefore society. Most fail early, mo

This is simply not true. Most startup founders are genuinely trying to build something that has value to the economy, and therefore society. Most fail early, most of what's left fails later, but some go on to be real, profitable, businesses. That's how it works outside of the startup world too. Most restaurants, clothing stores, car repair shops, etc. go out of business after just a few years, while a few move on to become large chains and the like.

blitzar 2y ago
> Most startup founders are genuinely trying to get wealthy, and not really good 9-5 job wealthy. Properly wealthy.
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  Both? Most humans on earth are trying to get wealthy, they just don't see a viable path in front of them.
  - blitzar 2y ago
    Most humans on earth are trying to survive, they just don't see a viable path in front of them
    - AbstractH24 2y ago
      This comment really points out how this message board and tech in general are not reflective of most humans on earth
    - BobbyJo 2y ago
      Global life expectancy is like 73. Life is hard, but lets not pretend most humans are wandering a wasteland in search of water.
      - blitzar 2y ago
        1 in 3 people globally do not have access to safe drinking water, sure it isn't 'most people' but it is 2.6 billion people.
inhumantsar 2y ago
nearly every VC and accelerator in the world is going to ask you, "what's your exit plan?" and look at you like a Martian if you say you're in it for the long haul rather than exit as soon as an exit is viable. imho that sort of "aim for the exit" thinking strongly incentivizes pump-and-dump behaviour and I think the bandwagoning we see with every hot new tech is exactly what one would expect as a result.
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  Well... they are investing to make money, not to hold shares in a company forever. If they wanted to do the later they'd buy index funds and sit on them. Most (I'd bet nearly all) capital sources for VCs do both actually. Also: 1) IPO is one of those exit strategies. Tons of startups are aiming to become long lived independent companies. 2) M&A makes sense for lots of businesses, as you get to take advantage of better economies of scale as part of a larger org. Saying it's your exit plan doesn't make you a scammer.
dustingetz 2y ago
> Most startup founders are genuinely trying to build something that has value to the economy, and therefore society. there is an unlabeled selection bias missing here, and in that bias we find everything
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  If that's your take, how to you hold any conversation online? Do you speak in sources and studies?
iancmceachern 2y ago
Your last paragraph paints a dual vision of the world that just isn't accurate. There are the two you mentioned: 1- small businesses that go out of business after a few years 2- ...ones that become big chains But you are forgetting #3, the one that actually makes up the largest proportion of businesses: 3- people that quietly, successfully, run their businesses in a sustainable, family and community oriented manner (not financial growth focused but personal growth focused) and then retire quietly surrounded by loved ones.
- BobbyJo 2y ago
  > But you are forgetting #3, the one that actually makes up the largest proportion of businesses: 3- people that quietly, successfully, run their businesses in a sustainable, family and community oriented manner (not financial growth focused but personal growth focused) and then retire quietly surrounded by loved ones. I wasn't forgetting them, they just aren't relevant to a conversation about venture capital, at least to me. There are plenty of small bootstrapped startups out there, but their ROI isn't high enough to justify a gamble on the part of investors. Likewise with the businesses you're talking about. Yes the make up most small businesses, but most small businesses aren't looking for private venture capital, and don't fall into the category of what OP was claiming is "pump n dump".
- pas 2y ago
  Big business is frighteningly efficient at being BIG. (At least in the US.) https://www.bls.gov/web/cewbd/table_f.txt https://www.bls.gov/web/cewbd/table_f.txt ~42% of the workforce is employed at firms with 1000+ headcount. The next biggest bucket is ~10% the 20-49 range. Then ~9.5% is the 100-249 bucket. And the share of biggest ones is (likely unfortunately) growing.
  - iancmceachern 2y ago
    "According to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA), 99.9% of businesses in the United States are small businesses, which are defined as independent businesses with fewer than 500 employees. This amounts to around 33.3 million businesses, which employ 61.7 million Americans, or 46.4% of private sector employees. Small businesses are a vital part of the American economy, contributing to economic stability and representing 43.5% of the country's GDP. Here are some other statistics about small businesses in the United States: 84.8% of businesses in rural areas are small businesses 43.2% of small businesses are owned by women 20% of employer businesses are owned by minorities Small businesses account for about 96% of employer firms in high-patenting manufacturing industries

blitzar 2y ago

> Most startup founders are genuinely trying to get wealthy, and not really good 9-5 job wealthy. Properly wealthy.

BobbyJo 2y ago
Both? Most humans on earth are trying to get wealthy, they just don't see a viable path in front of them.
- blitzar 2y ago
  Most humans on earth are trying to survive, they just don't see a viable path in front of them
  - AbstractH24 2y ago
    This comment really points out how this message board and tech in general are not reflective of most humans on earth
  - BobbyJo 2y ago
    Global life expectancy is like 73. Life is hard, but lets not pretend most humans are wandering a wasteland in search of water.
    - blitzar 2y ago
      1 in 3 people globally do not have access to safe drinking water, sure it isn't 'most people' but it is 2.6 billion people.

inhumantsar 2y ago

nearly every VC and accelerator in the world is going to ask you, "what's your exit plan?" and look at you like a Martian if you say you're in it for the long haul rather than exit as soon as an exit is viable. imho that sort of "aim for the exit" thinking strongly incentivizes pump-and-dump behaviour and I think the bandwagoning we see with every hot new tech is exactly what one would expect as a result.

BobbyJo 2y ago
Well... they are investing to make money, not to hold shares in a company forever. If they wanted to do the later they'd buy index funds and sit on them. Most (I'd bet nearly all) capital sources for VCs do both actually. Also: 1) IPO is one of those exit strategies. Tons of startups are aiming to become long lived independent companies. 2) M&A makes sense for lots of businesses, as you get to take advantage of better economies of scale as part of a larger org. Saying it's your exit plan doesn't make you a scammer.

dustingetz 2y ago

> Most startup founders are genuinely trying to build something that has value to the economy, and therefore society. there is an unlabeled selection bias missing here, and in that bias we find everything

BobbyJo 2y ago
If that's your take, how to you hold any conversation online? Do you speak in sources and studies?

iancmceachern 2y ago

Your last paragraph paints a dual vision of the world that just isn't accurate. There are the two you mentioned: 1- small businesses that go out of business after a few years 2- ...ones that become big chains But you are forgetting #3, the one that actually makes up the largest proportion of businesses: 3- people that quietly, successfully, run their businesses in a sustainable, family and community oriented manner (not financial growth focused but personal growth focused) and then retire quietly surrounded by loved ones.

BobbyJo 2y ago
> But you are forgetting #3, the one that actually makes up the largest proportion of businesses: 3- people that quietly, successfully, run their businesses in a sustainable, family and community oriented manner (not financial growth focused but personal growth focused) and then retire quietly surrounded by loved ones. I wasn't forgetting them, they just aren't relevant to a conversation about venture capital, at least to me. There are plenty of small bootstrapped startups out there, but their ROI isn't high enough to justify a gamble on the part of investors. Likewise with the businesses you're talking about. Yes the make up most small businesses, but most small businesses aren't looking for private venture capital, and don't fall into the category of what OP was claiming is "pump n dump".
pas 2y ago
Big business is frighteningly efficient at being BIG. (At least in the US.) https://www.bls.gov/web/cewbd/table_f.txt https://www.bls.gov/web/cewbd/table_f.txt ~42% of the workforce is employed at firms with 1000+ headcount. The next biggest bucket is ~10% the 20-49 range. Then ~9.5% is the 100-249 bucket. And the share of biggest ones is (likely unfortunately) growing.
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  "According to the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA), 99.9% of businesses in the United States are small businesses, which are defined as independent businesses with fewer than 500 employees. This amounts to around 33.3 million businesses, which employ 61.7 million Americans, or 46.4% of private sector employees. Small businesses are a vital part of the American economy, contributing to economic stability and representing 43.5% of the country's GDP. Here are some other statistics about small businesses in the United States: 84.8% of businesses in rural areas are small businesses 43.2% of small businesses are owned by women 20% of employer businesses are owned by minorities Small businesses account for about 96% of employer firms in high-patenting manufacturing industries