2 ms·

it's always been more expensive. daycare traditionally was only for aristocrats. multigenerational families lived in smaller apartments and cabins than single

it's always been more expensive. daycare traditionally was only for aristocrats. multigenerational families lived in smaller apartments and cabins than single people do today. Cities used to be filled with sewage, horses and smoke. I'll concede the point on communities and I think that's a bigger contributor than economics.

mlinhares 2y ago
Couldn't care less about what people did or lived like 100 years ago. I live today and I'm either going to provide my kids a good live and have a good life myself or not have kids. I don't need to have kids for them to be my labor, that's not how this works anymore.
- tonymet 2y ago
  then it's not about economics it's something else
- locococo 2y ago
  agree, the argument that the economy needs more warm bodies is not exactly inspirational.
  - tonymet 2y ago
    you're right, people aren't having kids because they are not inspired. that is one of the main reasons. but that's not economics, it's philosophical and theological
- darth_avocado 2y ago
  Exactly. Even 50 years ago, you could not even go to the high school and afford a middle class lifestyle for your kids. Not the case anymore. There’s no point comparing today with history.
taylodl 2y ago
You don't have to go back to the 19th century to make your point things are different today. Just go back to the 20th century - what did the Boomers do? - They had latchkey children - no daycare required! - "Free range" children was a thing and nobody got arrested for it! - There were such things as "Block Parents", people in the neighborhood who looked out for all the kids. Obviously this was before "stranger danger." - Everybody looked after everybody else's kids, even in tenement buildings. - People lived close to where the grew up and generally had relatives nearby to help out when all of the above failed. Nowadays, most of this is gone. In short, in just a mere 40 to 50 years, the cost of having children has skyrocketed. Add in the cost-of-living expenses have skyrocketed for younger people and you get the result that fewer people are having children and those who are having children are having them much later.
- jimt1234 2y ago
  Totally agree with this. I grew up in the 70s & 80s; myself, along with every other kid I knew, learned to exist without any supervision starting around 3rd grade. I think that might be difficult to believe for younger people today, but it's true. During the summer, all the kids in the neighborhood would get on our bikes in the morning and ride all day long, not returning home until dinner time. No parents. No cell phones. We had injuries all the time (one kid got shot in the leg by a hunter, another kid broke both his legs jumping into a shallow creek), but we all somehow survived. People weren't so protective of children back then. The attitude was basically, "They're kids. They're tough. They can take it." My sister has kids, and she's a total helicopter parent. I've asked her why, considering how we were raised. She simply said, "That's just how it is now. That's how everyone parents." So yeah, there is certainly a cultural element to this. But I wonder if that cultural change has been created or amplified by cost. In other words, the dumb-ass kid that jumped off a bridge into a shallow creek (it was on a bet, naturally), would his parents have to file for bankruptcy these days because of the high medical costs?
  - D13Fd 2y ago
    I had this even in the 1990s. But now it really is different. Last week, I let my 7 year old go by herself to a Dollar Tree store by herself while I was with her siblings at another store in the same shopping center. A bit later, I went in to the Dollar Tree after her, and got a real talking to from the cashier about how unsafe it was for me to let her go to the store by herself. She said the world isn't safe any more and I'm putting her at risk. The cashier was an elderly woman! I would think she was raised in a time where kids were allowed to leave the house on their own. I try to teach my kiddos independence. I send them out on their in ways that I think are safe. But the amount of judgment I get is just crazy. And I fear that one day I'll have child protective services knocking on my door.

mlinhares 2y ago

Couldn't care less about what people did or lived like 100 years ago. I live today and I'm either going to provide my kids a good live and have a good life myself or not have kids. I don't need to have kids for them to be my labor, that's not how this works anymore.

tonymet 2y ago
then it's not about economics it's something else
locococo 2y ago
agree, the argument that the economy needs more warm bodies is not exactly inspirational.
- tonymet 2y ago
  you're right, people aren't having kids because they are not inspired. that is one of the main reasons. but that's not economics, it's philosophical and theological
darth_avocado 2y ago
Exactly. Even 50 years ago, you could not even go to the high school and afford a middle class lifestyle for your kids. Not the case anymore. There’s no point comparing today with history.

taylodl 2y ago

You don't have to go back to the 19th century to make your point things are different today. Just go back to the 20th century - what did the Boomers do? - They had latchkey children - no daycare required! - "Free range" children was a thing and nobody got arrested for it! - There were such things as "Block Parents", people in the neighborhood who looked out for all the kids. Obviously this was before "stranger danger." - Everybody looked after everybody else's kids, even in tenement buildings. - People lived close to where the grew up and generally had relatives nearby to help out when all of the above failed. Nowadays, most of this is gone. In short, in just a mere 40 to 50 years, the cost of having children has skyrocketed. Add in the cost-of-living expenses have skyrocketed for younger people and you get the result that fewer people are having children and those who are having children are having them much later.

jimt1234 2y ago
Totally agree with this. I grew up in the 70s & 80s; myself, along with every other kid I knew, learned to exist without any supervision starting around 3rd grade. I think that might be difficult to believe for younger people today, but it's true. During the summer, all the kids in the neighborhood would get on our bikes in the morning and ride all day long, not returning home until dinner time. No parents. No cell phones. We had injuries all the time (one kid got shot in the leg by a hunter, another kid broke both his legs jumping into a shallow creek), but we all somehow survived. People weren't so protective of children back then. The attitude was basically, "They're kids. They're tough. They can take it." My sister has kids, and she's a total helicopter parent. I've asked her why, considering how we were raised. She simply said, "That's just how it is now. That's how everyone parents." So yeah, there is certainly a cultural element to this. But I wonder if that cultural change has been created or amplified by cost. In other words, the dumb-ass kid that jumped off a bridge into a shallow creek (it was on a bet, naturally), would his parents have to file for bankruptcy these days because of the high medical costs?
- D13Fd 2y ago
  I had this even in the 1990s. But now it really is different. Last week, I let my 7 year old go by herself to a Dollar Tree store by herself while I was with her siblings at another store in the same shopping center. A bit later, I went in to the Dollar Tree after her, and got a real talking to from the cashier about how unsafe it was for me to let her go to the store by herself. She said the world isn't safe any more and I'm putting her at risk. The cashier was an elderly woman! I would think she was raised in a time where kids were allowed to leave the house on their own. I try to teach my kiddos independence. I send them out on their in ways that I think are safe. But the amount of judgment I get is just crazy. And I fear that one day I'll have child protective services knocking on my door.