5 ms·

Companies get so much more out of people working from home - Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work.

ramesh31 2y ago
>Companies get so much more out of people working from home - Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work. This is what I find so funny. We accomplished more in the two years of full remote than any period before or since. Half the company now runs on software built during that time. But management refuses to acknowledge the fact, and mandated RTO. I am 100% convinced that a full remote team can run circles around the same team in-office. Probably we will see a new crop of startups eating people's lunch that haven't figured this out.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  I got to meet some of my coworkers in person for the first time recently and it was obvious that the structures re: who respects whom that we had built online were ignorant of meaningless physical details like how commanding a presence one has when they enter a room. This informed my new hypothesis: The people most in opposition to remote work are those who rely on charisma rather than other merits to remain relevant. They're losing the ground on which they have an advantage. They tend to be tall and with a voice that carries well over a crowd.
  - buildbot 2y ago
    The team I work on was created at the start of covid, as we didn't all meet in person for the first time until 2 years later too - it was really funny to learn that one person on the team was like, 6'4! Nobody knew!
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Somebody on my team who I respect very much turns out to have a small voice. Like, you just can't hear him over any kind of ambient noise. He's still a badass in my eyes, but I have to ask if he would be if we shared an office. Not that I'd consciously dismiss him. But accidents happen.
- pjerem 2y ago
  > But management refuses to acknowledge the fact, and mandated RTO. That’s because while workers discovered they were working better at home, middle management discovered that they were useless and had nothing other to do than exert some control over workers lives. They’re just afraid upper management may notice it.
Rinzler89 2y ago
>Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work I wonder how this would look like if Microsoft's stock were to be doing poorly. I seem to have noticed a strong correlation between companies being all for FWH and other perks, as long as "line goes UP", but the moment it stops going up, for factors unrelated to the workforces' performance, then they start tightening the screws on the workers: RTO, layoffs, etc.
qwerpy 2y ago
Agree but Microsoft has more going for it than just remote work support. My wife switched from Microsoft to a much younger, hip tech company and her quality of life plummeted. The higher work intensity, forced RTO, and the overall lack of parents at the company and especially at the leadership levels made for an unsympathetic place for her to work while dealing with the day to day life of a parent to young children. RTO would not have been an issue at Microsoft even if they had mandated it due to the increased flexibility and chill. And the fact that it's in a safe suburb rather than the somewhat problematic streets of our west coast city. She chose to quit her job to be a stay at home mom. Despite all the lip service paid to supporting women's careers, the tech industry is showing its true colors.
- wing-_-nuts 2y ago
  >the tech industry is showing its true colors. I'm not sure a WLB issue with one company is reflective of the tech industry as a whole. If anything, it seems the tech industry is much more accommodating to the needs of flexibility than other similarly paying industries like medicine, law, finance, etc. That, in and of it self raises an issue with modern work culture. There's currently a bit of a panic happening amongst those who study demographics. People are having less kids, and the pressures of modern living are part of the problem. I think the only way you're going to turn that trend around is by being way more flexible with and accommodating with workers. Either WLB gets better, or demographic collapse gets worse. Modern society has some choices to make.
Aurornis 2y ago
> Companies get so much more out of people working from home We actually saw a very bimodal split: One group of employees had virtually no measurable change (neither improvement or decline) in any metric, subjective or otherwise. The other group's productivity plummeted by nearly all metrics (again, from subjective performance reviews to any objective measures we looked at). The angry internet comment section solution is to fire everyone in group #2 (people who can't work from home), but that group was large enough that no amount of firing or intensive coaching was going to turn the ship around. The problem isn't as simple as you read about on internet comment sections. In my experience, it's good to have some remote employees but the WFH dynamic collapses when you try to let everyone do it. It's not appropriate for everyone. Normalize having some remote employees while requiring others to be in the office if they can't handle WFH. It's hard.
- bitmasher9 2y ago
  I am in group #1, and left my previous company over their return to office policy. It felt very unfair that a company would insist I spend my time and resources to work in a less comfortable environment because some people cannot focus without being in an office and having managers look over their shoulder.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  Then why forcing group 1 in office is acceptable, but forcing group 2 remote unacceptable?
  - _xiaz 2y ago
    Ideally noone gets forced and group 2 just has a little more space in the office
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
      I'd love that, but from my understanding, group 2 doesn't want to be at the office to attend zoom meetings
- 2y ago

ramesh31 2y ago

>Companies get so much more out of people working from home - Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work. This is what I find so funny. We accomplished more in the two years of full remote than any period before or since. Half the company now runs on software built during that time. But management refuses to acknowledge the fact, and mandated RTO. I am 100% convinced that a full remote team can run circles around the same team in-office. Probably we will see a new crop of startups eating people's lunch that haven't figured this out.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
I got to meet some of my coworkers in person for the first time recently and it was obvious that the structures re: who respects whom that we had built online were ignorant of meaningless physical details like how commanding a presence one has when they enter a room. This informed my new hypothesis: The people most in opposition to remote work are those who rely on charisma rather than other merits to remain relevant. They're losing the ground on which they have an advantage. They tend to be tall and with a voice that carries well over a crowd.
- buildbot 2y ago
  The team I work on was created at the start of covid, as we didn't all meet in person for the first time until 2 years later too - it was really funny to learn that one person on the team was like, 6'4! Nobody knew!
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Somebody on my team who I respect very much turns out to have a small voice. Like, you just can't hear him over any kind of ambient noise. He's still a badass in my eyes, but I have to ask if he would be if we shared an office. Not that I'd consciously dismiss him. But accidents happen.
pjerem 2y ago
> But management refuses to acknowledge the fact, and mandated RTO. That’s because while workers discovered they were working better at home, middle management discovered that they were useless and had nothing other to do than exert some control over workers lives. They’re just afraid upper management may notice it.

Rinzler89 2y ago

>Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work I wonder how this would look like if Microsoft's stock were to be doing poorly. I seem to have noticed a strong correlation between companies being all for FWH and other perks, as long as "line goes UP", but the moment it stops going up, for factors unrelated to the workforces' performance, then they start tightening the screws on the workers: RTO, layoffs, etc.

qwerpy 2y ago

Agree but Microsoft has more going for it than just remote work support. My wife switched from Microsoft to a much younger, hip tech company and her quality of life plummeted. The higher work intensity, forced RTO, and the overall lack of parents at the company and especially at the leadership levels made for an unsympathetic place for her to work while dealing with the day to day life of a parent to young children. RTO would not have been an issue at Microsoft even if they had mandated it due to the increased flexibility and chill. And the fact that it's in a safe suburb rather than the somewhat problematic streets of our west coast city. She chose to quit her job to be a stay at home mom. Despite all the lip service paid to supporting women's careers, the tech industry is showing its true colors.

wing-_-nuts 2y ago
>the tech industry is showing its true colors. I'm not sure a WLB issue with one company is reflective of the tech industry as a whole. If anything, it seems the tech industry is much more accommodating to the needs of flexibility than other similarly paying industries like medicine, law, finance, etc. That, in and of it self raises an issue with modern work culture. There's currently a bit of a panic happening amongst those who study demographics. People are having less kids, and the pressures of modern living are part of the problem. I think the only way you're going to turn that trend around is by being way more flexible with and accommodating with workers. Either WLB gets better, or demographic collapse gets worse. Modern society has some choices to make.

Aurornis 2y ago

> Companies get so much more out of people working from home We actually saw a very bimodal split: One group of employees had virtually no measurable change (neither improvement or decline) in any metric, subjective or otherwise. The other group's productivity plummeted by nearly all metrics (again, from subjective performance reviews to any objective measures we looked at). The angry internet comment section solution is to fire everyone in group #2 (people who can't work from home), but that group was large enough that no amount of firing or intensive coaching was going to turn the ship around. The problem isn't as simple as you read about on internet comment sections. In my experience, it's good to have some remote employees but the WFH dynamic collapses when you try to let everyone do it. It's not appropriate for everyone. Normalize having some remote employees while requiring others to be in the office if they can't handle WFH. It's hard.

bitmasher9 2y ago
I am in group #1, and left my previous company over their return to office policy. It felt very unfair that a company would insist I spend my time and resources to work in a less comfortable environment because some people cannot focus without being in an office and having managers look over their shoulder.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
Then why forcing group 1 in office is acceptable, but forcing group 2 remote unacceptable?
- _xiaz 2y ago
  Ideally noone gets forced and group 2 just has a little more space in the office
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
    I'd love that, but from my understanding, group 2 doesn't want to be at the office to attend zoom meetings
2y ago