> No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore Ah, in that case, yes we agree - I even doubt anyone without a political agenda ever thought about that. I

> No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore Ah, in that case, yes we agree - I even doubt anyone without a political agenda ever thought about that. I would even dare to say most people didn't even know the purpose of NATO, or even cared about it. Now they know. > Russia invaded in 2014, not in 2021... After Ukraine landed a landmark deal about gas with Shell Yes but in 2014 the narrative was to "protect ethnic Russians", and not annex territory, that's what I meant by invasion and what set apart the 2022 invasion as its own event - but you're correct, its a continuation of the 2014 invasion. I think this might be more than about resources. Russia has plenty of land and resources. My take is more about the public perception of Ukraine, which Russia used to call "brothers" but always looked at them was an inferior ethnic group, and they made sure to make them pay heavy prices as a reminder for being an inferior people to Russians. That's why I think the question is: What would Russians think of Putin if Ukraine joined and thrived in the EU, with better standards of living than Russia, as a democracy? Of course, resources play a role in this, because Ukraine can never be a successful democracy for the Russian regime, it would be their end.