4 ms·

hence, we are doomed

talldayo 2y ago
I suppose you could have said the same thing about the invention of books, that would share the dangerous knowledge of kings and sages with the unstable and unwashed masses.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  I've never read a book that was able to slurp up my data.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    You're doing the slurping.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      We seem to have read different chains of thought in this thread. The topic was "is it possible to encode things so that humans can understand but machines can't"? Talldayo said "I really don't think there are any ways to guarantee that AI cannot understand you." neon_me responded: "hence, we are doomed" Talldayo responded "I suppose you could have said the same thing about the invention of books" My comment was in response to that. Talldayo's response seemed a nonsequitor to me because books are providing data to the reader, not trying to collect and understand data from the reader.
- neon_me 2y ago
  Humans had natural information barriers. A foreign power invading a secret library would need significant time and resources to process its contents, often missing crucial details. This created an asymmetry in knowledge and data processing capabilities. Today, AI can analyze extreme amounts of data, eliminating this asymmetry and creating a gap with our own capability. How can we maintain some level of 'information obscurity' or processing advantage against the AI? Are there any methods that remain challenging for AI to interpret but are accessible to humans? I was thinking more like creating "DRM-like" content in obscure copy that might withstand for a while ... shrug
  - BuyMyBitcoins 2y ago
    Such schemes likely exist, but you would be hard pressed to find any system that wouldn’t also be burdensome for real humans to deal with. This is basically the same thing as CAPTCHA. I’m curious if you’re more concerned about the corpus of your work being used in the training of a model, or, parts of your work being analyzed by an existing model? For the former, I suspect copyright laws will eventually come around that afford some protection. But as for having something summarize your work, I sense that no copyright laws would be made for that.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    I just don't understand the question, I guess. By sharing something online you are removing its information barriers almost entirely. That means both humans and AI have plausible and complete access to what you've made. If you don't want people or AI to have access to your content, then don't put it on the internet. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too, there is no "stop humans from reading about me online" button and certainly no such thing exists for AI either.
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      This is the situation, yes. So what I've done is remove my works from the open web and put it behind a login wall. If you want an account, I have to be certain that you're a human being and that you will not proceed to put my work somewhere where it can be scraped by an AI bot. Which, in practice, means that I have to personally know you. I don't know of any other solution to this problem at this time.

I suppose you could have said the same thing about the invention of books, that would share the dangerous knowledge of kings and sages with the unstable and unwashed masses.

JohnFen 2y ago
I've never read a book that was able to slurp up my data.
- kbelder 2y ago
  You're doing the slurping.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    We seem to have read different chains of thought in this thread. The topic was "is it possible to encode things so that humans can understand but machines can't"? Talldayo said "I really don't think there are any ways to guarantee that AI cannot understand you." neon_me responded: "hence, we are doomed" Talldayo responded "I suppose you could have said the same thing about the invention of books" My comment was in response to that. Talldayo's response seemed a nonsequitor to me because books are providing data to the reader, not trying to collect and understand data from the reader.
neon_me 2y ago
Humans had natural information barriers. A foreign power invading a secret library would need significant time and resources to process its contents, often missing crucial details. This created an asymmetry in knowledge and data processing capabilities. Today, AI can analyze extreme amounts of data, eliminating this asymmetry and creating a gap with our own capability. How can we maintain some level of 'information obscurity' or processing advantage against the AI? Are there any methods that remain challenging for AI to interpret but are accessible to humans? I was thinking more like creating "DRM-like" content in obscure copy that might withstand for a while ... shrug
- BuyMyBitcoins 2y ago
  Such schemes likely exist, but you would be hard pressed to find any system that wouldn’t also be burdensome for real humans to deal with. This is basically the same thing as CAPTCHA. I’m curious if you’re more concerned about the corpus of your work being used in the training of a model, or, parts of your work being analyzed by an existing model? For the former, I suspect copyright laws will eventually come around that afford some protection. But as for having something summarize your work, I sense that no copyright laws would be made for that.
- talldayo 2y ago
  I just don't understand the question, I guess. By sharing something online you are removing its information barriers almost entirely. That means both humans and AI have plausible and complete access to what you've made. If you don't want people or AI to have access to your content, then don't put it on the internet. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too, there is no "stop humans from reading about me online" button and certainly no such thing exists for AI either.
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    This is the situation, yes. So what I've done is remove my works from the open web and put it behind a login wall. If you want an account, I have to be certain that you're a human being and that you will not proceed to put my work somewhere where it can be scraped by an AI bot. Which, in practice, means that I have to personally know you. I don't know of any other solution to this problem at this time.