9 ms·

When British Railways deliberately crashed a train

130 points by timthorn 2y ago

Symbiote 2y ago
News report of the test train crashing into the nuclear flask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc
chha 2y ago
Reminded me of Crash at Crush [1]; another deliberate train crash. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush
- lars_francke 2y ago
  Well there's your problem did a "podcast" episode on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4W9LT1cI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4W9LT1cI4
- ForOldHack 2y ago
  The crash at Crush? No this was the de-sledder at Cheddar.
- ForOldHack 2y ago
  The crash at Crush..."resulting in a shower of flying debris that killed two people." They are not the same.
pjc50 2y ago
This was the idea of the CEGB press officer, a certain Terry Pratchett. (see his autobiography for source)
- piltdownman 2y ago
  GNU Terry Pratchett. Still surprising me with his insight and intellect years after he joined the Clacks overhead.
- 8A51C 2y ago
  I feel like I was shown the event in a public service broadcast type documentary at school. Sticks in the memory. Along with the nuke Sheffield film, which didn't seem too much off a loss to us southerners at the time!
ralferoo 2y ago
As soon as I read the headline, I knew exactly what this was about! I'm not sure if it's still there (I left the area in 1988), but you used to be able to see the flask as it was placed next to the train track running to Heysham 2 power station. Just off the road to the ferry terminal and power station, there was a small bridge over the railway line on a road leading to a caravan site, and you could get a great view of it from the bridge. The most amazing thing was apart from a few scratches on the side, it looked like nothing had even happened to it! EDIT: looking at google maps, it seems that you can't see it any more. The road was Moneyclose Lane, Heysham where it joins Princess Alexandra Way. EDIT 2: apparently it's been moved to the visitor's centre: https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/H/Heysham_Power_Station/slideshow.html https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/H/Heysham_Power_Station...
- fifilura 2y ago
  Why do they use trains to move the rods around? Are there actually places in Britain where it is not possible to move them by shipping. It seems like a high cost to introduce a new way of transportation when one (safe-ish) method is already available.
  - ralferoo 2y ago
    I guess it'd be harder to retrieve it from the seabed if there was an accident than from a train line, as you can always drive / build cranes to places on land. I doubt it'd rust through any time soon in the sea, but I'd imagine it would have been even more likely to draw environmental protest.
    - teqsun 2y ago
      I would also think the "locating" aspect plays a role. Things can easily be lost at the bottom of the sea, isn't there a history of nuclear bombs that were accidentally lost at sea and never found?
      - dwighttk 2y ago
sam_goody 2y ago
OT: In the States we had a guy [named "Crush"] going around doing full head-on collisions between trains for ~50 years, just for the show. For his first and most famous performance, Crash at Crush[1], he pretty much built a whole town, drilled two wells, and wound up having to pay huge amounts. But after that it was all fun and games till the great depression "crushed" him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_CrushHis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_CrushHis first and most famous
- philshem 2y ago
  fixed link —> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush
082349872349872 2y ago
I went to an engineering school, and one of the stories the old boys told was that at some point the city had built a new bridge, and tendered the destruction of the old bridge, and we'd put in the winning bid. The scheduled day came, but only an hour or two after the scheduled time an urgent messenger came from the city: the neighbours were complaining, could they please just destroy the bridge all at once with the next explosion? It turns out the civil engineers had been enjoying themselves in the interval, checking their modelling by seeing how many parts of the bridge they could blow off of it, while leaving the majority of the structure still standing...
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Important civil defence work, no doubt.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    No. Just look at the postmortem engineering reports on bridges which have collapsed (due to crappy inspections and maintenance, or being hit by a vehicle, or fire, or ...). Understanding which parts of rusted & crumbling old bridges are critical (to keeping them standing) is extremely important. Because the real world has many, many such bridges. And even fresh "Rescue workers are still pulling bodies from the collapsed bridge!" headlines seldom motivate the politicians to provide enough resources for inspections & maintenance & protection.
    - 0_____0 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - fourteenfour 2y ago
        Ha, I have a good engineer friend who often plays devil's advocate and he sometimes seems to reflexively respond with a disagreeing statement even if he is agreeing with the majority of what is being discussed.
      - 2y ago
blibble 2y ago
there was this one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue61c6MZNQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue61c6MZNQw
ColinHayhurst 2y ago
Computer simulations of this crash were pioneering and done by peers in the engineering consulting world [0]. I don't remember the details but I suspect the cost of those back then were on a par with the cost of the actual full-scale physical test. How things have changed. A few years later and beyond, I got deeply involved in developing similar and new simulation algorithms and techniques for impact, explosions and safety which we and customers applied in the defence, space and other industries [1]. [0] https://resources.inmm.org/system/files/patram_proceedings/1986/433.PDF https://resources.inmm.org/system/files/patram_proceedings/1... [1] https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XYplI1kAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XYplI1kAAAAJ&hl=en...
akhenakh 2y ago
What's up with the black and white pictures, we had colors in 1984! Gimmick to make me feel old?
- Liquid_Fire 2y ago
  I'm guessing they are scans from the magazine, which probably didn't have all pages in colour.
- DrBazza 2y ago
  "Today" newspaper launched in 1986 - it was the first newspaper that was printed in colour in the UK. Many press photographers used B&W film since there was little point using (and paying more) for colour. Also, they likely bought their cameras and worked as media photographers for several decades beforehand when B&W was even more prevalent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(UK_newspaper) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(UK_newspaper)
  - radiowave 2y ago
    Right. And also, the photographer likely wants high ISO film, to be able to take a very short, crisp exposure of the moment of impact, without needing to gamble on the amount of cloud cover, and hence available light. ISO 1600 colour film will have been available at the time, but was probably pretty poor compared to B&W.
this_steve_j 2y ago
Who else saw the headline and thought about this Top Gear BBC episode with a PSA for level train crossings? https://youtu.be/ue61c6MZNQw?si=OhYXjbW_9MaPHj5k https://youtu.be/ue61c6MZNQw?si=OhYXjbW_9MaPHj5k Clarkson: “…and they weren’t even wearing any high visibility safety clothing.”
Someone 2y ago
BBC news footage: https://youtu.be/ZY446h4pZdc?si=Y0DHmeYI8cbFd8wk https://youtu.be/ZY446h4pZdc?si=Y0DHmeYI8cbFd8wk
walthamstow 2y ago
All this talk of flasks, Cheddar and Melton Mowbray is making me peckish
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
nickdothutton 2y ago
If I wasn’t on a mobile I’d post a link to a YouTube video of the intro to the original edge of darkness.
golergka 2y ago
Reminds me of a similar story where 5 military men were on ground zero underneath an aerial nuclear detonation to prove its safety. https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/07/16/156851175/five-men-agree-to-stand-directly-under-an-exploding-nuclear-bomb https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/07/16/156851175/f...

130 points by timthorn 2y ago

News report of the test train crashing into the nuclear flask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY446h4pZdc

chha 2y ago

Reminded me of Crash at Crush [1]; another deliberate train crash. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush

lars_francke 2y ago
Well there's your problem did a "podcast" episode on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4W9LT1cI4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4W9LT1cI4
ForOldHack 2y ago
The crash at Crush? No this was the de-sledder at Cheddar.
ForOldHack 2y ago
The crash at Crush..."resulting in a shower of flying debris that killed two people." They are not the same.

pjc50 2y ago

This was the idea of the CEGB press officer, a certain Terry Pratchett. (see his autobiography for source)

piltdownman 2y ago
GNU Terry Pratchett. Still surprising me with his insight and intellect years after he joined the Clacks overhead.
8A51C 2y ago
I feel like I was shown the event in a public service broadcast type documentary at school. Sticks in the memory. Along with the nuke Sheffield film, which didn't seem too much off a loss to us southerners at the time!

ralferoo 2y ago

As soon as I read the headline, I knew exactly what this was about! I'm not sure if it's still there (I left the area in 1988), but you used to be able to see the flask as it was placed next to the train track running to Heysham 2 power station. Just off the road to the ferry terminal and power station, there was a small bridge over the railway line on a road leading to a caravan site, and you could get a great view of it from the bridge. The most amazing thing was apart from a few scratches on the side, it looked like nothing had even happened to it! EDIT: looking at google maps, it seems that you can't see it any more. The road was Moneyclose Lane, Heysham where it joins Princess Alexandra Way. EDIT 2: apparently it's been moved to the visitor's centre: https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/H/Heysham_Power_Station/slideshow.html https://www.railscot.co.uk/locations/H/Heysham_Power_Station...

fifilura 2y ago
Why do they use trains to move the rods around? Are there actually places in Britain where it is not possible to move them by shipping. It seems like a high cost to introduce a new way of transportation when one (safe-ish) method is already available.
- ralferoo 2y ago
  I guess it'd be harder to retrieve it from the seabed if there was an accident than from a train line, as you can always drive / build cranes to places on land. I doubt it'd rust through any time soon in the sea, but I'd imagine it would have been even more likely to draw environmental protest.
  - teqsun 2y ago
    I would also think the "locating" aspect plays a role. Things can easily be lost at the bottom of the sea, isn't there a history of nuclear bombs that were accidentally lost at sea and never found?
    - dwighttk 2y ago

sam_goody 2y ago

OT: In the States we had a guy [named "Crush"] going around doing full head-on collisions between trains for ~50 years, just for the show. For his first and most famous performance, Crash at Crush[1], he pretty much built a whole town, drilled two wells, and wound up having to pay huge amounts. But after that it was all fun and games till the great depression "crushed" him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_CrushHis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_CrushHis first and most famous

philshem 2y ago
fixed link —> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crash_at_Crush

082349872349872 2y ago

I went to an engineering school, and one of the stories the old boys told was that at some point the city had built a new bridge, and tendered the destruction of the old bridge, and we'd put in the winning bid. The scheduled day came, but only an hour or two after the scheduled time an urgent messenger came from the city: the neighbours were complaining, could they please just destroy the bridge all at once with the next explosion? It turns out the civil engineers had been enjoying themselves in the interval, checking their modelling by seeing how many parts of the bridge they could blow off of it, while leaving the majority of the structure still standing...

HPsquared 2y ago
Important civil defence work, no doubt.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  No. Just look at the postmortem engineering reports on bridges which have collapsed (due to crappy inspections and maintenance, or being hit by a vehicle, or fire, or ...). Understanding which parts of rusted & crumbling old bridges are critical (to keeping them standing) is extremely important. Because the real world has many, many such bridges. And even fresh "Rescue workers are still pulling bodies from the collapsed bridge!" headlines seldom motivate the politicians to provide enough resources for inspections & maintenance & protection.
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - fourteenfour 2y ago
      Ha, I have a good engineer friend who often plays devil's advocate and he sometimes seems to reflexively respond with a disagreeing statement even if he is agreeing with the majority of what is being discussed.
    - 2y ago

blibble 2y ago

there was this one too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue61c6MZNQw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue61c6MZNQw

ColinHayhurst 2y ago

Computer simulations of this crash were pioneering and done by peers in the engineering consulting world [0]. I don't remember the details but I suspect the cost of those back then were on a par with the cost of the actual full-scale physical test. How things have changed. A few years later and beyond, I got deeply involved in developing similar and new simulation algorithms and techniques for impact, explosions and safety which we and customers applied in the defence, space and other industries [1]. [0] https://resources.inmm.org/system/files/patram_proceedings/1986/433.PDF https://resources.inmm.org/system/files/patram_proceedings/1... [1] https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XYplI1kAAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=XYplI1kAAAAJ&hl=en...

akhenakh 2y ago

What's up with the black and white pictures, we had colors in 1984! Gimmick to make me feel old?

Liquid_Fire 2y ago
I'm guessing they are scans from the magazine, which probably didn't have all pages in colour.
DrBazza 2y ago
"Today" newspaper launched in 1986 - it was the first newspaper that was printed in colour in the UK. Many press photographers used B&W film since there was little point using (and paying more) for colour. Also, they likely bought their cameras and worked as media photographers for several decades beforehand when B&W was even more prevalent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(UK_newspaper) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Today_(UK_newspaper)
- radiowave 2y ago
  Right. And also, the photographer likely wants high ISO film, to be able to take a very short, crisp exposure of the moment of impact, without needing to gamble on the amount of cloud cover, and hence available light. ISO 1600 colour film will have been available at the time, but was probably pretty poor compared to B&W.

this_steve_j 2y ago

Who else saw the headline and thought about this Top Gear BBC episode with a PSA for level train crossings? https://youtu.be/ue61c6MZNQw?si=OhYXjbW_9MaPHj5k https://youtu.be/ue61c6MZNQw?si=OhYXjbW_9MaPHj5k Clarkson: “…and they weren’t even wearing any high visibility safety clothing.”

Someone 2y ago

BBC news footage: https://youtu.be/ZY446h4pZdc?si=Y0DHmeYI8cbFd8wk https://youtu.be/ZY446h4pZdc?si=Y0DHmeYI8cbFd8wk

walthamstow 2y ago

All this talk of flasks, Cheddar and Melton Mowbray is making me peckish

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

nickdothutton 2y ago

If I wasn’t on a mobile I’d post a link to a YouTube video of the intro to the original edge of darkness.

golergka 2y ago

Reminds me of a similar story where 5 military men were on ground zero underneath an aerial nuclear detonation to prove its safety. https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/07/16/156851175/five-men-agree-to-stand-directly-under-an-exploding-nuclear-bomb https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/07/16/156851175/f...