4 ms·

NIMBY seems to be one of the intrinsic faults of democracy. Some people really don't like any change happening around them, and, once empowered, will go to grea

NIMBY seems to be one of the intrinsic faults of democracy. Some people really don't like any change happening around them, and, once empowered, will go to great lengths to stop anything from happening. This is probably something that democratic states need to address by reducing such empowerment. Much like your neighbor cannot tell you what to cook for dinner - even if he is a vegetarian and hates the smell of meat - he shouldn't be able to tell you not to build a house in his proximity.

binary132 2y ago
can you tell your neighbor not to have a loud party, burn garbage, or release toxic chemicals into the air?
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  That should be open to a tort, but the mere fact that someone wants to live next to you should be considered "fundamentally fine".
  - binary132 2y ago
    You didn’t say “someone wants to live next to you”. You said “build a house”. Presumably, this includes a “house” that can hold 1000 people at low rent. If it doesn’t (since that would undeniably destroy your property value), then you’re willing to impose regulations on the pretty deregulated picture you’ve painted. If it does, then you’re not going to find that many people who own property agree with you.
    - ProfessorLayton 2y ago
      >Presumably, this includes a “house” that can hold 1000 people at low rent. Presumptuous indeed. There wouldn't be a housing shortage if vast parts of the U.S. weren't restricted to single family homes. The choice isn't a single family home or a housing complex that can hold a 1,000 people, but more efficient usage of space and infrastructure, one that isn't totally centered around everyone having a vehicle. That can also mean low rise multi-family homes seen in cities worldwide, and yes, also big complexes where viable. >If it does, then you’re not going to find that many people who own property agree with you. Well if things don't change, lots of people won't be able to own property, and the rules will change anyway. We're seeing this in California.
      - binary132 2y ago
        so “yes”?
c22 2y ago
Wtf? If all of your neighbors don't like the smell of meat they absolutely can tell you not to cook it. That's what democracy is. Don't like it? Be a king.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  And if all of your neighbors don't like your skin color or religion, can they drive you out of town? That is why no country in the world actually employs limitless democracy. There are usually guaranteed and protected civil rights that you can enjoy regardless of current majoritarian (and fickle) opinion in your town. There are more systems in the world than absolute monarchy X absolute democracy that votes on everything all the time.
  - c22 2y ago
    Yes they can, and historically they have. The places where this doesn't happen are places where most people have decided that these traits don't matter that much.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    > And if all of your neighbors don't like your skin color or religion, can they drive you out of town? Democracy is not required/irrelevant for that...
- beaglesss 2y ago
  Yes. Democracy is a gang-rape. Better than most systems although I think maybe Hoppe was right. .
beaglesss 2y ago
Yep. My county deregulated housing. Literally no code checks. A permit was me drawing a square on a map, paying a few hundred bucks and it was rubber stamped in a few days. It was an absolute godsend. I built the house myself for 1/3 the price of even a clapped out trailer. Sure I could have built a firetrap but I have to live in the fucking house, so I did the best with what I can afford. We all have to live somehow, asking people to do their best they can with what little they have to protect themselves and neighbors should really be the most we can ask. I could never afford a 'real' developer built house anywhere near jobs.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  May I ask which country?
  - beaglesss 2y ago
    A county in USA
    - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
      Oops. Yes, reading is fundamental! May I ask where in the USA?
      - beaglesss 2y ago
        Lots of such counties exist. Most of Alaska qualifies, as do parts of TN, NM, AZ, etc. should be a list of some you can pull up and start there if you're looking to do same.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  Does this mean any random communist party elite from across the pond can do the same? They have enough bucks to draw squares all over your county
  - beaglesss 2y ago

binary132 2y ago

can you tell your neighbor not to have a loud party, burn garbage, or release toxic chemicals into the air?

inglor_cz 2y ago
That should be open to a tort, but the mere fact that someone wants to live next to you should be considered "fundamentally fine".
- binary132 2y ago
  You didn’t say “someone wants to live next to you”. You said “build a house”. Presumably, this includes a “house” that can hold 1000 people at low rent. If it doesn’t (since that would undeniably destroy your property value), then you’re willing to impose regulations on the pretty deregulated picture you’ve painted. If it does, then you’re not going to find that many people who own property agree with you.
  - ProfessorLayton 2y ago
    >Presumably, this includes a “house” that can hold 1000 people at low rent. Presumptuous indeed. There wouldn't be a housing shortage if vast parts of the U.S. weren't restricted to single family homes. The choice isn't a single family home or a housing complex that can hold a 1,000 people, but more efficient usage of space and infrastructure, one that isn't totally centered around everyone having a vehicle. That can also mean low rise multi-family homes seen in cities worldwide, and yes, also big complexes where viable. >If it does, then you’re not going to find that many people who own property agree with you. Well if things don't change, lots of people won't be able to own property, and the rules will change anyway. We're seeing this in California.
    - binary132 2y ago
      so “yes”?

c22 2y ago

Wtf? If all of your neighbors don't like the smell of meat they absolutely can tell you not to cook it. That's what democracy is. Don't like it? Be a king.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
inglor_cz 2y ago
And if all of your neighbors don't like your skin color or religion, can they drive you out of town? That is why no country in the world actually employs limitless democracy. There are usually guaranteed and protected civil rights that you can enjoy regardless of current majoritarian (and fickle) opinion in your town. There are more systems in the world than absolute monarchy X absolute democracy that votes on everything all the time.
- c22 2y ago
  Yes they can, and historically they have. The places where this doesn't happen are places where most people have decided that these traits don't matter that much.
- throwaway290 2y ago
  > And if all of your neighbors don't like your skin color or religion, can they drive you out of town? Democracy is not required/irrelevant for that...
beaglesss 2y ago
Yes. Democracy is a gang-rape. Better than most systems although I think maybe Hoppe was right. .

beaglesss 2y ago

Yep. My county deregulated housing. Literally no code checks. A permit was me drawing a square on a map, paying a few hundred bucks and it was rubber stamped in a few days. It was an absolute godsend. I built the house myself for 1/3 the price of even a clapped out trailer. Sure I could have built a firetrap but I have to live in the fucking house, so I did the best with what I can afford. We all have to live somehow, asking people to do their best they can with what little they have to protect themselves and neighbors should really be the most we can ask. I could never afford a 'real' developer built house anywhere near jobs.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
May I ask which country?
- beaglesss 2y ago
  A county in USA
  - AnimalMuppet 2y ago
    Oops. Yes, reading is fundamental! May I ask where in the USA?
    - beaglesss 2y ago
      Lots of such counties exist. Most of Alaska qualifies, as do parts of TN, NM, AZ, etc. should be a list of some you can pull up and start there if you're looking to do same.
throwaway290 2y ago
Does this mean any random communist party elite from across the pond can do the same? They have enough bucks to draw squares all over your county
- beaglesss 2y ago