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Many have not yet squared up to the fact that society itself is an unprofitable boondoggle that requires massive moral radicalization and willingness to partici

Many have not yet squared up to the fact that society itself is an unprofitable boondoggle that requires massive moral radicalization and willingness to participate in odd, polarizing institutions and practices. We live inside the semi-decayed skeleton of a society built by deeply religious people who believed that society should be built and maintained because that is the moral thing to do. They weren't only motivated by per-capita GDP or the promise of weekends off or the pursuit of variety in breakfast cereals, as neoliberal economists seem to claim. They had deep underlying motivations to create a civilization in which they and their families could flourish and engage in the twin pursuits of culture and commerce. We are now seeing the third-or-fourth generation that is growing up in an era where economic metrics are cited as the "core fundamentals" of a society; unfortunately, comfort and consumption are not motivating enough factors to drive people to feel loyal and energized to contribute to their civilization. Take away the glory and meaning from the basic acts of living among your peers and you will end up with large swaths of people who do enough to get by, and not much more.

codexb 2y ago
You also have to look at much of the impetus behind how long held religious morals were devised. Millenia of human suffering. Wars. Oppression. Exploitation.
piuantiderp 2y ago
In other words, everyone became a Marxist, at least when it comes to the materialism.
- relaxing 2y ago
  I think you should elaborate on that.
mecsred 2y ago
Not sure why the negative votes on this one, one of the only takes that doesn't make me feel insane so far. I'll reword my understanding of it. Society requires effort and investment that doesn't produce immediate material benefits. Rationalizing everything down to profit and loss encourages people to see the collected effort as a tragedy of the commons. You need to actually want to be part of a society to start, then if enough people join you, you can actually build one!
- quacked 2y ago
  For what it's worth, the comment score that I can see is oscillating between 0 and 2, so if it's showing greyed out, that may just be an indication that it's a polarizing comment. I totally agree with your second paragraph.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
anal_reactor 2y ago
> Take away the glory and meaning from the basic acts of living among your peers and you will end up with large swaths of people who do enough to get by, and not much more. This is exactly how I feel. Sure, my life is comfortable, but at the same time it's so small and pointless, which leaves me completely unmotivated. Why do anything if nothing matters.
- carapace 2y ago
  Oh that. That's easy. Here's what you do for that: Go to the store and get some loaves of bread, sliced meat and cheese, lettuce and tomato, mustard and mayo. Make sandwiches. Take them to people who do not know where their next meal is coming from and give them to those people.
- quacked 2y ago
  There is a way out of this slump, but it is difficult. My recommendation is that you spend a period of self-investigation, and then begin to use your moral and aesthetic judgement frequently. This is difficult for many Americans because most of our time up to adulthood is spent in schools, whose major function is to suppress your natural and parent-trained senses of judgement and morality, and instead instill obedience to the directions of various legal and economic authorities: https://selfdirectededucation.neocities.org/pdf/JTG%20The%20Seven%20Lesson%20Schoolteacher.pdf https://selfdirectededucation.neocities.org/pdf/JTG%20The%20... What I mean by executing your moral and aesthetic judgement: you need to discover what you think is RIGHT vs. what is WRONG, and what is BEAUTIFUL vs. what is UGLY, and begin to make amends for wrong-ness and ugliness in your community and your social circles by adding right-ness and beauty. It could be as simple as looking at a blank wall in your apartment and thinking "that's UGLY, for the entire course of human history people have decorated their dwellings using their own cultural stylings; what is my culture, and what are its stylings?" and then decorating your apartment, or it could be as complex as (to use another commenter's example) looking at homeless people who don't have anything to eat and thinking "that's WRONG, why are people living on the street with no food, how could this problem be rectified?" and feeding them sandwiches or joining groups attempting to mitigated homelessness. (I personally do not think that individuals bringing meals to homeless and poor people is a good or sustainable practice for society, but it doesn't matter; each person needs to develop their own thoughts and opinions on the matter.) My overall point is that the chief desire of "capitalists, communists, schools, prisons, politicians, profiteers, thieves, predators, etc." is your apathy, both to the moral practices of your society and to the aesthetic decisions displayed to you. As long as you don't care, they can do whatever they want, because you're not going to get in the way. You need to flex your own opinion and become radicalized in applying your own judgement to the things that you see in society. Never assume that "the experts have it under control" or that nothing matters; in fact, society is made up of individual people, of which you are one, and you need to contribute your judgement and effort to the way that society acts and looks, or else everything will seem "small and pointless", as you say.

codexb 2y ago

You also have to look at much of the impetus behind how long held religious morals were devised. Millenia of human suffering. Wars. Oppression. Exploitation.

piuantiderp 2y ago

In other words, everyone became a Marxist, at least when it comes to the materialism.

relaxing 2y ago
I think you should elaborate on that.

mecsred 2y ago

Not sure why the negative votes on this one, one of the only takes that doesn't make me feel insane so far. I'll reword my understanding of it. Society requires effort and investment that doesn't produce immediate material benefits. Rationalizing everything down to profit and loss encourages people to see the collected effort as a tragedy of the commons. You need to actually want to be part of a society to start, then if enough people join you, you can actually build one!

quacked 2y ago
For what it's worth, the comment score that I can see is oscillating between 0 and 2, so if it's showing greyed out, that may just be an indication that it's a polarizing comment. I totally agree with your second paragraph.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

anal_reactor 2y ago

> Take away the glory and meaning from the basic acts of living among your peers and you will end up with large swaths of people who do enough to get by, and not much more. This is exactly how I feel. Sure, my life is comfortable, but at the same time it's so small and pointless, which leaves me completely unmotivated. Why do anything if nothing matters.

carapace 2y ago
Oh that. That's easy. Here's what you do for that: Go to the store and get some loaves of bread, sliced meat and cheese, lettuce and tomato, mustard and mayo. Make sandwiches. Take them to people who do not know where their next meal is coming from and give them to those people.
quacked 2y ago
There is a way out of this slump, but it is difficult. My recommendation is that you spend a period of self-investigation, and then begin to use your moral and aesthetic judgement frequently. This is difficult for many Americans because most of our time up to adulthood is spent in schools, whose major function is to suppress your natural and parent-trained senses of judgement and morality, and instead instill obedience to the directions of various legal and economic authorities: https://selfdirectededucation.neocities.org/pdf/JTG%20The%20Seven%20Lesson%20Schoolteacher.pdf https://selfdirectededucation.neocities.org/pdf/JTG%20The%20... What I mean by executing your moral and aesthetic judgement: you need to discover what you think is RIGHT vs. what is WRONG, and what is BEAUTIFUL vs. what is UGLY, and begin to make amends for wrong-ness and ugliness in your community and your social circles by adding right-ness and beauty. It could be as simple as looking at a blank wall in your apartment and thinking "that's UGLY, for the entire course of human history people have decorated their dwellings using their own cultural stylings; what is my culture, and what are its stylings?" and then decorating your apartment, or it could be as complex as (to use another commenter's example) looking at homeless people who don't have anything to eat and thinking "that's WRONG, why are people living on the street with no food, how could this problem be rectified?" and feeding them sandwiches or joining groups attempting to mitigated homelessness. (I personally do not think that individuals bringing meals to homeless and poor people is a good or sustainable practice for society, but it doesn't matter; each person needs to develop their own thoughts and opinions on the matter.) My overall point is that the chief desire of "capitalists, communists, schools, prisons, politicians, profiteers, thieves, predators, etc." is your apathy, both to the moral practices of your society and to the aesthetic decisions displayed to you. As long as you don't care, they can do whatever they want, because you're not going to get in the way. You need to flex your own opinion and become radicalized in applying your own judgement to the things that you see in society. Never assume that "the experts have it under control" or that nothing matters; in fact, society is made up of individual people, of which you are one, and you need to contribute your judgement and effort to the way that society acts and looks, or else everything will seem "small and pointless", as you say.