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I just don't understand React, it makes things slower, less responsive, just a worse browsing experience in general all to serve json instead of html. The user

I just don't understand React, it makes things slower, less responsive, just a worse browsing experience in general all to serve json instead of html. The user experience is worse and the developer experience is worse. React was invented to save facebook money on the billions of requests they get by sending minimal json data and having JavaScript do all the rendering. Under facebook I can understand it because it will save them millions in bandwidth but for 99.99999% of other websites it makes no sense. Also another reason for React was to devalue front-end developers and make them easier to replace.

throwawayffffas 2y ago
It's not about the rendering. It's about making sure all the state of the UI is consistent. That when textbox A is changed. All the places in the page that depend on that value are updated. You can do it without react but it's a real pain.
- squidbeak 2y ago
  Yes, the problem isn't react, it's the notion that every website needs to be an application, or that sites serving articles (a large part of the web) need a UI.
- Zanfa 2y ago
  Apparently Facebook can't do it with React either. They still experience the exact same state inconsistency bug as described [0] during React announcement as rationale for using React. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkdrAPrdcw&t=887s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkdrAPrdcw&t=887s
- 1GZ0 2y ago
  Managing state in the frontend is the worst, no matter the framework. I understand why a large company like Facebook wants it to be done client side, but for the rest of us, I'd argue its nowhere near worth the hassle.
- archerx 2y ago
  I make dynamic apps and I have never had this issue with state. I've made visualization generators, image editors, live charts and html editors that run in the browser. the stuff I'm making has a lot changing elements and handling the state is not an issue for me. Maybe it's because I learned programming from game development I see web dev with a different perspective?
  - lomase 2y ago
    How do you know how to repaint the screen when a variable changes without blocking the UI?
    - throwawayffffas 2y ago
      To slightly refine your question. When a variable changes how do you know which UI elements have to be updated? I think his answer is obviously all of them.
  - throwawayffffas 2y ago
    So 10 years ago when React was made public the default way to handle changes on the web was to have a bunch of event handlers that would go over the DOM and make appropriate mutations. That's kind of typical of retained mode user interfaces. To this day that's kind of how things like QT and GTK kind of work. There are things like data binding, etc. But that's what they do under the hood. When you are working like that it's easy to forget to do mutations on specific UI components or to make mistakes about the mutation that has to happen. React handles the mutations, it takes your code, feeds it the current state and gets back what the ui should look like, and then it does a diff with what's on screen and updates accordingly. If you are coming from game development you are probably used to immediate mode UIs where you specify and update the entire user interface every time.
- lomase 2y ago
  The whole point is not doing the rendering on Facebook servers but on the user terminal.

throwawayffffas 2y ago

It's not about the rendering. It's about making sure all the state of the UI is consistent. That when textbox A is changed. All the places in the page that depend on that value are updated. You can do it without react but it's a real pain.

squidbeak 2y ago
Yes, the problem isn't react, it's the notion that every website needs to be an application, or that sites serving articles (a large part of the web) need a UI.
Zanfa 2y ago
Apparently Facebook can't do it with React either. They still experience the exact same state inconsistency bug as described [0] during React announcement as rationale for using React. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkdrAPrdcw&t=887s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYkdrAPrdcw&t=887s
1GZ0 2y ago
Managing state in the frontend is the worst, no matter the framework. I understand why a large company like Facebook wants it to be done client side, but for the rest of us, I'd argue its nowhere near worth the hassle.
archerx 2y ago
I make dynamic apps and I have never had this issue with state. I've made visualization generators, image editors, live charts and html editors that run in the browser. the stuff I'm making has a lot changing elements and handling the state is not an issue for me. Maybe it's because I learned programming from game development I see web dev with a different perspective?
- lomase 2y ago
  How do you know how to repaint the screen when a variable changes without blocking the UI?
  - throwawayffffas 2y ago
    To slightly refine your question. When a variable changes how do you know which UI elements have to be updated? I think his answer is obviously all of them.
- throwawayffffas 2y ago
  So 10 years ago when React was made public the default way to handle changes on the web was to have a bunch of event handlers that would go over the DOM and make appropriate mutations. That's kind of typical of retained mode user interfaces. To this day that's kind of how things like QT and GTK kind of work. There are things like data binding, etc. But that's what they do under the hood. When you are working like that it's easy to forget to do mutations on specific UI components or to make mistakes about the mutation that has to happen. React handles the mutations, it takes your code, feeds it the current state and gets back what the ui should look like, and then it does a diff with what's on screen and updates accordingly. If you are coming from game development you are probably used to immediate mode UIs where you specify and update the entire user interface every time.
lomase 2y ago
The whole point is not doing the rendering on Facebook servers but on the user terminal.