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Corrected: No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore ( weird, i'm pretty sure i typed NATO on my mobile... Since i mentioned Russian imperialism => Rus

Corrected: No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore ( weird, i'm pretty sure i typed NATO on my mobile... Since i mentioned Russian imperialism => Russia expansion ) > In fact it was not only a major grievance, it was part of Russia's ultimatum in December 2021 before invading Ukraine Russia invaded in 2014, not in 2021... After Ukraine landed a landmark deal about gas with Shell This predates your claims. I'm not ignoring that Russia tried to topple Kyiv ( it tried to topple more countries than just that). But their primarely target is the east of Ukraine ( resource rich ) and Crimea ( for gas and their naval fleet). - https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/10/ukraine-russia-energy-mineral-wealth/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/08/10/ukraine-russ... - https://www.reuters.com/article/business/ukraine-signs-landmark-10-billion-shale-gas-deal-with-shell-idUSBRE90N11X/ https://www.reuters.com/article/business/ukraine-signs-landm... TLDR: I think we mean the same, but the typo caused confusion :)

libertine 2y ago
> No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore Ah, in that case, yes we agree - I even doubt anyone without a political agenda ever thought about that. I would even dare to say most people didn't even know the purpose of NATO, or even cared about it. Now they know. > Russia invaded in 2014, not in 2021... After Ukraine landed a landmark deal about gas with Shell Yes but in 2014 the narrative was to "protect ethnic Russians", and not annex territory, that's what I meant by invasion and what set apart the 2022 invasion as its own event - but you're correct, its a continuation of the 2014 invasion. I think this might be more than about resources. Russia has plenty of land and resources. My take is more about the public perception of Ukraine, which Russia used to call "brothers" but always looked at them was an inferior ethnic group, and they made sure to make them pay heavy prices as a reminder for being an inferior people to Russians. That's why I think the question is: What would Russians think of Putin if Ukraine joined and thrived in the EU, with better standards of living than Russia, as a democracy? Of course, resources play a role in this, because Ukraine can never be a successful democracy for the Russian regime, it would be their end.
- b3nny 2y ago
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libertine 2y ago

> No one real believes it's NATO's expansion anymore Ah, in that case, yes we agree - I even doubt anyone without a political agenda ever thought about that. I would even dare to say most people didn't even know the purpose of NATO, or even cared about it. Now they know. > Russia invaded in 2014, not in 2021... After Ukraine landed a landmark deal about gas with Shell Yes but in 2014 the narrative was to "protect ethnic Russians", and not annex territory, that's what I meant by invasion and what set apart the 2022 invasion as its own event - but you're correct, its a continuation of the 2014 invasion. I think this might be more than about resources. Russia has plenty of land and resources. My take is more about the public perception of Ukraine, which Russia used to call "brothers" but always looked at them was an inferior ethnic group, and they made sure to make them pay heavy prices as a reminder for being an inferior people to Russians. That's why I think the question is: What would Russians think of Putin if Ukraine joined and thrived in the EU, with better standards of living than Russia, as a democracy? Of course, resources play a role in this, because Ukraine can never be a successful democracy for the Russian regime, it would be their end.

b3nny 2y ago
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