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Because people were tired of dealing with NetworkSolutions customer support, even if the registry service was good. Verisign bought the registry business, and s

by toast0 2y ago

Because people were tired of dealing with NetworkSolutions customer support, even if the registry service was good. Verisign bought the registry business, and spun out NetworkSolutions, the registrar. This is a benefit, because running a registry is a technical business, and running a registrar is a customer service business. In the old days, if you didn't like the service, you needed to find another TLD; post 1999, you can keep your domain and change your registrar when you want. The TLD can redelegate the registry business too, but it doesn't affect the end customers very much. There's only 2800 registrars, and popular registries likely deal with each of them, but that's not a large number. When registries need to contact registrars, it's manageable. But not all TLDs operate this way. ccTLDs can operate however they like: some have evolved to a registry/registrar operation, some offer direct registration only, some offer direct registration and through intermediaries.

bjornsing 2y ago
> This is a benefit, because running a registry is a technical business, and running a registrar is a customer service business. I’ve registered and managed domains for my businesses for 20+ years now and I have never once been in contact with a registrar’s customer service. I want a registrar that runs like a technical business. My main problem with them is that they all turn into leaches when they are successful – charging more and more for renewals, filling their websites with more and more spammy “products”.
- toast0 2y ago
  I've had the best luck with providers that run a domain reselling on the side. When I was a Sonic.net customer, I used their domain services, cause it provided just enough for what I need. I currently use nearlyfreespeech.net for most of my domains; it's barebones and I have to pay a service fee to update my DNS server IP, but it's better than dealing with something else; although I have two domains they don't support. I setup OpenSRS reseller accounts for two internet businesses I worked for in 2000, and I might do it again for a low effort side business, but I haven't convinced myself the paperwork burden is worth it to operate a business.
  - nucleardog 2y ago
    > I've had the best luck with providers that run a domain reselling on the side. Yep. This is why I don't mind paying a slight premium to register everything through AWS's Route53. AWS is making $90b/yr in revenue. Stuff's got to go pretty far off the rails for somebody there to sign off on "Yeah, you know what, I think we really need to start doing upsells and dark patterns in Route53 registrations!" And if I need to contact support... their support department isn't budgeted based on running a domain registrar. It's budgeted based on supporting their cloud business. Every time I've contacted them about everything they've been quick, efficient, and competent. So I pay them $14/yr instead of paying Spaceship or Porkbun $10/yr or Internet.bs $13/yr or... If I'm ever at the point where the $1-4/yr matters, I should probably just revisit all these domains I keep renewing.
- ajdlinux 2y ago
  > I’ve registered and managed domains for my businesses for 20+ years now and I have never once been in contact with a registrar’s customer service. Interacting with a registrar's domain management web interface is being in contact with the registrar's customer service - it's just automated, rather than manual, customer service.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    That’s like saying a gas pump is customer service. That completely dilutes the meaning out to “the customer uses the product”, which is not what people mean when they say “customer service”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_service
    - cxr 2y ago
      Thinking lowly of a company's customer service based on how few person-to-person interactions one has had with them is just about the dumbest stance a person could take on the matter. It's on par with the attitude where workers are elevated for creating fires and then putting them out while those who make sure not to create them in the first place are overlooked (or worse).
      - kortilla 2y ago
        It’s what the term means. You’re getting mad because you thought it meant “user experience”
        cxr 2y ago
        > You’re getting mad because Anyone who uses this "trick" automatically loses whether they know it or not.
        kortilla 2y ago
        You said “the dumbest stance anyone can take on the planet” in reaction to the literal definition. It’s clearly an emotional reaction that doesn’t have any substance to engage with.
- Beijinger 2y ago
  > leaches when they are successful I am with internet.bs and a happy customer since 10y For European TLD I would use inwx.com I buy email external for 18 Euros a year at infomaniak.com
- t_mann 2y ago
  > My main problem with them is that they all turn into leaches when they are successful And now imagine how bad that problem would be if they knew that the only way you could walk away would be by giving up your TLD, to which very likely at least some marketing materials - potentially the whole identity of your company - is tied.
duskwuff 2y ago
> There's only 2800 registrars In practical terms there's a lot fewer. Look through the list of registrars [1], ideally sorted by the contact email, and you'll find that many of them are "sock puppets" of a larger operation: * 1,251 registrars are operated by NameBright, including "DropCatch.com 345 LLC" through "DropCatch.com 1545 LLC" (numbered sequentially). * 479 are operated by Network Solutions under many different names. * 300 are operated by Gname and are named, rather uncreatively, "Gname 001 Inc" through "Gname 300 Inc". There are a lot of other small-scale duplicates, like about fifty run by LogicBoxes or twenty by DotMedia, but the three mentioned above make up nearly three quarters of the total alone. I'd be surprised if there were much more than two or three hundred distinct companies involved in the domain registration industry. [1]: https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars
- ricardo81 2y ago
  Yes, I believe the 'duplication' of registrar accounts is so that they can increase their rate limits on drop catching expired domains, presumably to avoid the registrar getting a thundering herd problem from determined registrars. A rate limit solves that at least. Last I looked they have to pay about £3K for every account annually, so clearly it's still a lucrative niche.
- cxr 2y ago
  > 1,251 registrars are operated by NameBright Meanwhile, NameBright doesn't even have a Wikipedia article. (Readers are encouraged to try the same experiment with the trusted set of CAs with root certificates that ship with their Web browsers.)

by toast0 2y ago

bjornsing 2y ago

> This is a benefit, because running a registry is a technical business, and running a registrar is a customer service business. I’ve registered and managed domains for my businesses for 20+ years now and I have never once been in contact with a registrar’s customer service. I want a registrar that runs like a technical business. My main problem with them is that they all turn into leaches when they are successful – charging more and more for renewals, filling their websites with more and more spammy “products”.

toast0 2y ago
I've had the best luck with providers that run a domain reselling on the side. When I was a Sonic.net customer, I used their domain services, cause it provided just enough for what I need. I currently use nearlyfreespeech.net for most of my domains; it's barebones and I have to pay a service fee to update my DNS server IP, but it's better than dealing with something else; although I have two domains they don't support. I setup OpenSRS reseller accounts for two internet businesses I worked for in 2000, and I might do it again for a low effort side business, but I haven't convinced myself the paperwork burden is worth it to operate a business.
- nucleardog 2y ago
  > I've had the best luck with providers that run a domain reselling on the side. Yep. This is why I don't mind paying a slight premium to register everything through AWS's Route53. AWS is making $90b/yr in revenue. Stuff's got to go pretty far off the rails for somebody there to sign off on "Yeah, you know what, I think we really need to start doing upsells and dark patterns in Route53 registrations!" And if I need to contact support... their support department isn't budgeted based on running a domain registrar. It's budgeted based on supporting their cloud business. Every time I've contacted them about everything they've been quick, efficient, and competent. So I pay them $14/yr instead of paying Spaceship or Porkbun $10/yr or Internet.bs $13/yr or... If I'm ever at the point where the $1-4/yr matters, I should probably just revisit all these domains I keep renewing.
ajdlinux 2y ago
> I’ve registered and managed domains for my businesses for 20+ years now and I have never once been in contact with a registrar’s customer service. Interacting with a registrar's domain management web interface is being in contact with the registrar's customer service - it's just automated, rather than manual, customer service.
- kortilla 2y ago
  That’s like saying a gas pump is customer service. That completely dilutes the meaning out to “the customer uses the product”, which is not what people mean when they say “customer service”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_service https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_service
  - cxr 2y ago
    Thinking lowly of a company's customer service based on how few person-to-person interactions one has had with them is just about the dumbest stance a person could take on the matter. It's on par with the attitude where workers are elevated for creating fires and then putting them out while those who make sure not to create them in the first place are overlooked (or worse).
    - kortilla 2y ago
      It’s what the term means. You’re getting mad because you thought it meant “user experience”
      - cxr 2y ago
        > You’re getting mad because Anyone who uses this "trick" automatically loses whether they know it or not.
        kortilla 2y ago
        You said “the dumbest stance anyone can take on the planet” in reaction to the literal definition. It’s clearly an emotional reaction that doesn’t have any substance to engage with.
Beijinger 2y ago
> leaches when they are successful I am with internet.bs and a happy customer since 10y For European TLD I would use inwx.com I buy email external for 18 Euros a year at infomaniak.com
t_mann 2y ago
> My main problem with them is that they all turn into leaches when they are successful And now imagine how bad that problem would be if they knew that the only way you could walk away would be by giving up your TLD, to which very likely at least some marketing materials - potentially the whole identity of your company - is tied.

duskwuff 2y ago

> There's only 2800 registrars In practical terms there's a lot fewer. Look through the list of registrars [1], ideally sorted by the contact email, and you'll find that many of them are "sock puppets" of a larger operation: * 1,251 registrars are operated by NameBright, including "DropCatch.com 345 LLC" through "DropCatch.com 1545 LLC" (numbered sequentially). * 479 are operated by Network Solutions under many different names. * 300 are operated by Gname and are named, rather uncreatively, "Gname 001 Inc" through "Gname 300 Inc". There are a lot of other small-scale duplicates, like about fifty run by LogicBoxes or twenty by DotMedia, but the three mentioned above make up nearly three quarters of the total alone. I'd be surprised if there were much more than two or three hundred distinct companies involved in the domain registration industry. [1]: https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars https://www.icann.org/en/accredited-registrars

ricardo81 2y ago
Yes, I believe the 'duplication' of registrar accounts is so that they can increase their rate limits on drop catching expired domains, presumably to avoid the registrar getting a thundering herd problem from determined registrars. A rate limit solves that at least. Last I looked they have to pay about £3K for every account annually, so clearly it's still a lucrative niche.
cxr 2y ago
> 1,251 registrars are operated by NameBright Meanwhile, NameBright doesn't even have a Wikipedia article. (Readers are encouraged to try the same experiment with the trusted set of CAs with root certificates that ship with their Web browsers.)