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Polls are not an election, indirectly or otherwise. The people who care most about polls are a) pollsters, and b) hacks writing tedious process stories. My poi

Polls are not an election, indirectly or otherwise. The people who care most about polls are a) pollsters, and b) hacks writing tedious process stories. My point includes the suggestion that there is never a "best"; the optimal outcome is to elect the least worst candidate. ALI: I shall stay here and learn politics. LAWRENCE: That's a very low occupation. ALI: I had no thought of it when I met you. The paradox of government is that the people most qualified to hold office - almost any office - are deterred from it by the sheer awfulness of the jobs. Someone deselecting themselves is in the general category of the dissuaded, even if they've done it before. c.f. also Adams on presidential elections, https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2416 https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/2416

hunter-gatherer 2y ago
I've recently wondered what a sortitionist democracy would look like, something were the legislative and executive branches are randomly selected throughout the popukation much like a jurry to serve for a few years. I'm not aware of any places in history that had something like that. I've actually had a few runins in my past with some US senators where I got to actually sit and listen and converse about some problems. I was always unimpressed with the caliber of the man, to be honest, in terms of both their emotional and cognitive prowess. Having random people vote on the issues probably wouldn't yield worse results. Something I've come to believe is that US democracy doesn't naturally select for anyone based on leadership skills, credentials, or any virtue that is needed in such a role. It seems to select for people who can get votes, which can mean a lot of things. I think that is a key issue.
- tsimionescu 2y ago
  A very important point in politics that doesn't often get discussed is that simply holding a legal office doesn't give you any actual powers. The most likely result of a sortitionist system would be that the bureaucracy controls the state, and that the officially appointed leaders are strictly figureheads. Despite what the law says, people in the administration don't actually have to follow the orders of their appointed superior. If they feel that the senator/congressman/president/etc can be fooled, or simply that enough of their colleagues are on their side, they can just ignore even direct orders. What's the senator going to do? Call the police because their subordinates are ignoring them? So one of the most necessary qualities in an official is being able to control the levers of power - through connections, charisma, physical power in ages past, money - whatever it is, you need your subordinates to actually do what you tell them. Government isn't a boardgames where people follow the law just because those are the rules of the game.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >I've recently wondered what a sortitionist democracy would look like, something were the legislative and executive branches are randomly selected throughout the popukation much like a jurry to serve for a few years. I'm not aware of any places in history that had something like that. Me neither, but it reminds me of the Arthur C. Clarke novel "Songs from Distant Earth". In it, a distant colony of Earth has a very small population, since the planet is all a big ocean, except for a few small islands. The small society has a mayor, who's randomly chosen from the population for a limited term. The only disqualification (other than obvious things like age) is that the post can't go to someone who actually wants to do the job. It's similar to how no one in their right mind actually wants to sit on a jury, but people do it because of civic duty.

hunter-gatherer 2y ago

I've recently wondered what a sortitionist democracy would look like, something were the legislative and executive branches are randomly selected throughout the popukation much like a jurry to serve for a few years. I'm not aware of any places in history that had something like that. I've actually had a few runins in my past with some US senators where I got to actually sit and listen and converse about some problems. I was always unimpressed with the caliber of the man, to be honest, in terms of both their emotional and cognitive prowess. Having random people vote on the issues probably wouldn't yield worse results. Something I've come to believe is that US democracy doesn't naturally select for anyone based on leadership skills, credentials, or any virtue that is needed in such a role. It seems to select for people who can get votes, which can mean a lot of things. I think that is a key issue.

tsimionescu 2y ago
A very important point in politics that doesn't often get discussed is that simply holding a legal office doesn't give you any actual powers. The most likely result of a sortitionist system would be that the bureaucracy controls the state, and that the officially appointed leaders are strictly figureheads. Despite what the law says, people in the administration don't actually have to follow the orders of their appointed superior. If they feel that the senator/congressman/president/etc can be fooled, or simply that enough of their colleagues are on their side, they can just ignore even direct orders. What's the senator going to do? Call the police because their subordinates are ignoring them? So one of the most necessary qualities in an official is being able to control the levers of power - through connections, charisma, physical power in ages past, money - whatever it is, you need your subordinates to actually do what you tell them. Government isn't a boardgames where people follow the law just because those are the rules of the game.
shiroiushi 2y ago
>I've recently wondered what a sortitionist democracy would look like, something were the legislative and executive branches are randomly selected throughout the popukation much like a jurry to serve for a few years. I'm not aware of any places in history that had something like that. Me neither, but it reminds me of the Arthur C. Clarke novel "Songs from Distant Earth". In it, a distant colony of Earth has a very small population, since the planet is all a big ocean, except for a few small islands. The small society has a mayor, who's randomly chosen from the population for a limited term. The only disqualification (other than obvious things like age) is that the post can't go to someone who actually wants to do the job. It's similar to how no one in their right mind actually wants to sit on a jury, but people do it because of civic duty.