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Politicians who refuse to retire is a huge, bipartisan problem in the US affecting both genders. Putting an age limit on the president or members of congress wo

Politicians who refuse to retire is a huge, bipartisan problem in the US affecting both genders. Putting an age limit on the president or members of congress would probably have to be done via a constitutional amendment, because the Supreme Court has ruled in the past that states cannot add eligibility requirements that are not in the constitution. One reform that would help in Congress would be to modify the seniority system. Right now, members of Congress gain seniority as long as they keep being re-elected, so you end up with a situation where all the most powerful committees are headed by ancient legislators teetering at death's door. Since those committee chairs are very powerful, they get lots of campaign donations which help keep them in office until God calls them home. I think modulo arithmetic should be used to calculate seniority. A member of the House should have their seniority set to their time in office modulo 10 - after five terms they are reset to seniority zero. For senators, maybe modulo 18 could be used.

jszymborski 2y ago
Maybe not even modulo but something like seniority increases monotonically for five terms but decreases monotonically for each subsequent term after the fifth term.
- OldSchool 2y ago
  as lobbyists, you guys are going to lose most of them at modulo and the rest at monotonically
  - jjk166 2y ago
    Hey congress people, do you want your time in office to be much more fun and exciting? Vote yes on the Congressional Rollercoaster Act!
RajBhai 2y ago
Parties should be able to place age restrictions on the candidates. That can't stop an elderly candidate from running third party to spite the eligibility rules, but that's already the case.
- SllX 2y ago
  Hypothetically, but parties are also incredibly weak right now. In California, we run an Open Primary system for every partisan office outside the POTUS so parties can’t even guarantee they’ll get a candidate into the general election even if they are otherwise eligible to put nominees forward and sometimes it’s Democrat vs Democrat (this has been happening for US Senate elections) or in some legislative districts Republican vs Republican. Then coming from the opposite direction, you had a complete outsider in Trump effectively takeover the Republican Party in 2016 and he’s still holding the reins in 2024. Bernie Sanders almost managed something similar with the Democratic Party and they just barely held strong enough to keep that from happening. Twice. Frankly political parties are incredibly unlikely to come together to impose any restrictions that would impose any kind of extra burden on their elder members, let alone age-gate them.
  - nativeit 2y ago
    I missed the part where you explain how Bernie Sanders is a meaningful analog to Donald Trump, such that his primary defeats should be hailed as “holding strong” against an insurgent candidate?
    - SllX 2y ago
      Well the unknown variable is whether like Trump he would prove to be more popular than the party he ran under after a successful Presidential election effectively taking it over so you got me there; but they were in 2016 both outsiders who came into their parties to run for President under an already successful Party-brand and made a helluva run, one more successfully than the other. Either way, neither of them should have gotten as far as they did.
consultSKI 2y ago
Term Limits. No real math is required. Senate: 1 Term. 6 years. Not able to then serve in the House. House: 2 Terms. 4 years. Not able to then serve in the Senate. 1 Term House + 1 Term Senate. 8 years total. Elect any LEGAL Citizen regardless of age.
- Forgeties79 2y ago
  >Elect any LEGAL citizen regardless of age I’m not sure why you feel the need to say “LEGAL citizen” and am kind of afraid to ask you to unpack it.
- PopePompus 2y ago
  The problem is, that's been tried and SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional in U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Term_Limits,_Inc._v._Thornton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Term_Limits,_Inc._v._Thor... ), so a constitutional amendment would be needed. Good luck with that.
- tatrajim 2y ago
  Gives power to the permanent committee staff members and lobbyists who have institutional memory and social networks. No legislator could possibly understand all the nuances of policy with such short limits. Four terms, say, as a Senator and eight as a House member would be more practical.
  - labcomputer 2y ago
    Exactly this. California has enacted term limits and it hasn’t gone well. Lobbyists run everything because the politicians are all too new. It also completely disincentivizes long-term thinking because the system guarantees they will be out of office by the time the chickens come home to roost.
    - duped 2y ago
      I heard an interview from a state rep in Florida complaining about term limits, something like "your first term is like your Freshman year, you don't know anything, your second is like your Sophomore year, etc" and her point was that you can't get anything done without being able to serve at least 6 years or so. I think that's kind of bogus. If you can't figure out how to be an effective politician in your first term then you don't deserve to be elected for a second!
AbstractH24 2y ago
It’s not just limited to politicians A whole generation is unwilling to acknowledge their mortality, step aside and make room (although unlike politicians many aren’t because they can’t afford to)
- watwut 2y ago
  The generation should not have to voluntarily step back. The political system should be such that it allows for middle aged people to enter.
duped 2y ago
We have a built-in filter for this already, which are the primary and general elections. The problem is not politicians refusing to retire, but voters refusing to vote them out. The Democrat/Republican party system is what gives incumbents such a lead over challengers. I don't think term limits are the fix, I think we need to change how campaigns are financed - because right now, the parties pick who gets money in downticket races, and incumbents have their own war chests. That leads to challengers being outspent. I just keep thinking about how the national party rolled over for Dianne Feinstein in the 2018 senate election, even though she lost the support of the state party. No big democrats were willing to drop their support of her, and the national party wasn't going to spend money on a primary/general challenge to a seat that would stay blue.
- jjk166 2y ago
  > Since those committee chairs are very powerful, they get lots of campaign donations which help keep them in office Incumbency is a huge thumb on the scales. A functional system needs to have certain checks on those in power that balance the playing field, otherwise democracy is a sham. The two party system is a problem, but term limits are meant to solve a different issue.
- lazyeye 2y ago
  "The problem is not politicians refusing to retire, but voters refusing to vote them out..." Or is it the media running cover for the regime and gaslighting the public on the presidents fading mental capacity?
- ProllyInfamous 2y ago
  >voters refusing to vote them out. US states are rapidly banning ranked-choice voting †, in efforts to prevent loss of their two-party systems. Campaign finance reform is definitely necessary, but so is the fundamental nature of how citizens choose representation. †: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting Just one example would be Tennessee, which recently banned the practice after a Memphis suburb attempted to implement the practice.

jszymborski 2y ago

Maybe not even modulo but something like seniority increases monotonically for five terms but decreases monotonically for each subsequent term after the fifth term.

OldSchool 2y ago
as lobbyists, you guys are going to lose most of them at modulo and the rest at monotonically
- jjk166 2y ago
  Hey congress people, do you want your time in office to be much more fun and exciting? Vote yes on the Congressional Rollercoaster Act!

RajBhai 2y ago

Parties should be able to place age restrictions on the candidates. That can't stop an elderly candidate from running third party to spite the eligibility rules, but that's already the case.

SllX 2y ago
Hypothetically, but parties are also incredibly weak right now. In California, we run an Open Primary system for every partisan office outside the POTUS so parties can’t even guarantee they’ll get a candidate into the general election even if they are otherwise eligible to put nominees forward and sometimes it’s Democrat vs Democrat (this has been happening for US Senate elections) or in some legislative districts Republican vs Republican. Then coming from the opposite direction, you had a complete outsider in Trump effectively takeover the Republican Party in 2016 and he’s still holding the reins in 2024. Bernie Sanders almost managed something similar with the Democratic Party and they just barely held strong enough to keep that from happening. Twice. Frankly political parties are incredibly unlikely to come together to impose any restrictions that would impose any kind of extra burden on their elder members, let alone age-gate them.
- nativeit 2y ago
  I missed the part where you explain how Bernie Sanders is a meaningful analog to Donald Trump, such that his primary defeats should be hailed as “holding strong” against an insurgent candidate?
  - SllX 2y ago
    Well the unknown variable is whether like Trump he would prove to be more popular than the party he ran under after a successful Presidential election effectively taking it over so you got me there; but they were in 2016 both outsiders who came into their parties to run for President under an already successful Party-brand and made a helluva run, one more successfully than the other. Either way, neither of them should have gotten as far as they did.

consultSKI 2y ago

Term Limits. No real math is required. Senate: 1 Term. 6 years. Not able to then serve in the House. House: 2 Terms. 4 years. Not able to then serve in the Senate. 1 Term House + 1 Term Senate. 8 years total. Elect any LEGAL Citizen regardless of age.

Forgeties79 2y ago
>Elect any LEGAL citizen regardless of age I’m not sure why you feel the need to say “LEGAL citizen” and am kind of afraid to ask you to unpack it.
PopePompus 2y ago
The problem is, that's been tried and SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional in U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Term_Limits,_Inc._v._Thornton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Term_Limits,_Inc._v._Thor... ), so a constitutional amendment would be needed. Good luck with that.
tatrajim 2y ago
Gives power to the permanent committee staff members and lobbyists who have institutional memory and social networks. No legislator could possibly understand all the nuances of policy with such short limits. Four terms, say, as a Senator and eight as a House member would be more practical.
- labcomputer 2y ago
  Exactly this. California has enacted term limits and it hasn’t gone well. Lobbyists run everything because the politicians are all too new. It also completely disincentivizes long-term thinking because the system guarantees they will be out of office by the time the chickens come home to roost.
  - duped 2y ago
    I heard an interview from a state rep in Florida complaining about term limits, something like "your first term is like your Freshman year, you don't know anything, your second is like your Sophomore year, etc" and her point was that you can't get anything done without being able to serve at least 6 years or so. I think that's kind of bogus. If you can't figure out how to be an effective politician in your first term then you don't deserve to be elected for a second!

AbstractH24 2y ago

It’s not just limited to politicians A whole generation is unwilling to acknowledge their mortality, step aside and make room (although unlike politicians many aren’t because they can’t afford to)

watwut 2y ago
The generation should not have to voluntarily step back. The political system should be such that it allows for middle aged people to enter.

duped 2y ago

We have a built-in filter for this already, which are the primary and general elections. The problem is not politicians refusing to retire, but voters refusing to vote them out. The Democrat/Republican party system is what gives incumbents such a lead over challengers. I don't think term limits are the fix, I think we need to change how campaigns are financed - because right now, the parties pick who gets money in downticket races, and incumbents have their own war chests. That leads to challengers being outspent. I just keep thinking about how the national party rolled over for Dianne Feinstein in the 2018 senate election, even though she lost the support of the state party. No big democrats were willing to drop their support of her, and the national party wasn't going to spend money on a primary/general challenge to a seat that would stay blue.

jjk166 2y ago
> Since those committee chairs are very powerful, they get lots of campaign donations which help keep them in office Incumbency is a huge thumb on the scales. A functional system needs to have certain checks on those in power that balance the playing field, otherwise democracy is a sham. The two party system is a problem, but term limits are meant to solve a different issue.
lazyeye 2y ago
"The problem is not politicians refusing to retire, but voters refusing to vote them out..." Or is it the media running cover for the regime and gaslighting the public on the presidents fading mental capacity?
ProllyInfamous 2y ago
>voters refusing to vote them out. US states are rapidly banning ranked-choice voting †, in efforts to prevent loss of their two-party systems. Campaign finance reform is definitely necessary, but so is the fundamental nature of how citizens choose representation. †: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting Just one example would be Tennessee, which recently banned the practice after a Memphis suburb attempted to implement the practice.