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I’m curious: what do the Republicans align on, besides “Win at all cost” and “Liberals are bad”? Trump doesn’t care about the budget, doesn’t care about protec

I’m curious: what do the Republicans align on, besides “Win at all cost” and “Liberals are bad”? Trump doesn’t care about the budget, doesn’t care about protecting our allies, doesn’t care about abortion. I’d wager he doesn’t care about immigration, either, except as a way to get votes.

dheera 2y ago
> what do the Republicans align on Christianity, God Bless America, conservative immigration law, well-being of rural people and small towns, second amendment, Made in USA, white-normalized culture ... Democrats very rarely align. They fight between factions about whether BLM, LGBT, or Stop Asian Hate is more important, ffs. They can't even come together and fight for all of the above.
- macintux 2y ago
  Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? And the IRA was a huge investment in “Made in USA”, whereas Trump spent years promoting an infrastructure week that never materialized.
  - tshaddox 2y ago
    > Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. Evangelicals love Trump (in one of the biggest “this massive group of people clearly was lying about its stated moral principles” reveals in recent memory).
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      Evangelicals think a serial killer goes to heaven if he asks God for forgiveness when the executioner throws the switch.
  - pstuart 2y ago
    > Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump One would think so, but they've embraced him as literally God's gift, and his appointments to SCOTUS are deeply religious.
  - oceanplexian 2y ago
    > Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? Protectionist tariffs, particularly those imposed on Chinese imports were so popular that the Democratic party has silently endorsed and continued them through the Biden presidency.
    - LargeWu 2y ago
      Protectionism is only meaningful if we are protecting our own manufacturing, which has already largely disappeared. The CHIPS Act is one of Biden's crowning achievements and is more truly protectionist than anything Trump every got done.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. What are you talking about? Christians (American ones at least) absolutely love Trump. I'll probably get a bunch of replies here from non-Christian liberals making a bunch of theological claims about a religion they don't even believe in, but the people who decide what is or isn't "real Christianity" are the people who actually go to church and call themselves Christians, not a bunch of people who don't believe strongly in any religion. Talk all you want about how Trump doesn't exemplify so-called "Christian values", but that's totally irrelevant. The Americans who actually go to church every Sunday are showing up at Trump rallies like he's the Messiah's chosen one and they're voting for him, and of course defending him at every turn no matter how much you might think his words or actions don't align with your perception of the religion. >Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? He's given it a lot of lip-service, and that's all that matters for these voters. And also very importantly, he delivered for rural America by installing a bunch of SCOTUS justices who managed to overturn Roe v Wade. How's that good for rural America's economy? It isn't, but that doesn't matter, because this issue was #1 or #2 for these voters, especially the ones that most strongly identified as "Christian". It's amazing how easy it is to see why Democrats keep losing elections to the MAGA crowd, and how they completely fail to understand their mentality and what's really important to them.
    - gwd 2y ago
      > What are you talking about? Christians (American ones at least) absolutely love Trump. I'll probably get a bunch of replies here from non-Christian liberals making a bunch of theological claims about a religion they don't even believe in, but the people who decide what is or isn't "real Christianity" are the people who actually go to church and call themselves Christians, not a bunch of people who don't believe strongly in any religion. How about a reply from an evangelical Christian who goes to Church? How about if I use words from Christ himself? “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ [1] From what I can tell, there are different camps of Evangelicals and "Evangelicals" voting for Trump. Let me say at the start that "Christian Nationalism" is an inherent contradiction in terms. Jesus over and over again had the opportunity to become a political power, and explicitly rejected it [2][3][4]. Anything trying to explicitly enforce "Christianity" with political power is out of line with Christ's teaching. This has always been true, but it is particularly true now. A lot of the people I see on TV pounding on about God and Christianity don't show any evidence that they know anything at all about Jesus; I don't have any reason to believe them to be Christians. Others are real Christians -- people trying to follow Jesus and take his teachings seriously -- who are simply deluded. They actually believe that the election was stolen; they actually believe that the trials against him are witch-hunts. They're not voting for Trump the person, but for an imaginary person they've been fed. Others are real Christians, and know that Trump is a vile man and a criminal, but somehow have convinced themselves that the Biden "crime family" and/or the Democrats are just as bad, and are cynically choosing someone they think will benefit their own group. Either they don't think a second Trump term will be worse than the first term, or they don't care. Consider the "gay wedding cake" case [5]. Evangelicals in loads of creative professions (including baking, photography, and so on) came perilously close to having to chose between violating their consciences or losing their livelihoods. Getting a solid majority of the court who would vote "their way" about these sorts of issues was considered by many to be worth the cost of a Trump presidency. (NB I'm not trying to make an argument either way about that case; rather, I'm trying to show the mindset of someone in 2015 deciding whether to vote for Trump or Hillary.) Also note that I don't consider any of these things excuses. Belief is not a morally neutral activity; there may be people who genuinely had no opportunity to understand Trump's true nature, but I don't think that applies to the vast majority of Christians who have an inaccurate picture of him; particularly after the warnings we have throughout the New Testament to be on our guard against people trying to control us. Furthermore, while we have the example of using the legal system to defend ourselves (in the case of Paul's various trials in Acts), we're also told to expect to persecuted for our beliefs. Hiring a lawyer is one thing; voting for a man like Trump is something completely different. And there are plenty of Evangelicals who are outspoken against Trump; but far too few. All that to say -- unfortunately, yes, Trump is popular with Christians and people who consider themselves Christians. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-... [2] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A9-11&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A9-1... [3] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A15&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A15&ver... [4] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A36&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A36&ve... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...
- jandrewrogers 2y ago
  Christian conservatives are decidedly a minority in the Republican party, and increasingly marginalized. Much to the distress of that faction, the offical Republican platform no longer talks about gay marriage nor banning abortion except for late-term. The Republicans have moderated a lot over the last decade. Their current platform reads like the Democrat platform from the 2000s.
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    Not "Christian conservatives", "Christian nationalists". The former have been extirpated but the latter are running the party.
  - krapp 2y ago
    I don't think Christians are going to forsake the party that handed them the head of Roe V. Wade on a platter any time soon.
neverartful 2y ago
I would argue that 'win at all cost' is played by both parties. It's a form of 'the ends justify the means' and I really wish that people of both parties understood the long-term implications of that approach.
- macintux 2y ago
  Democrats encourage their fellow elected officials to step down when convicted of crimes. They notoriously don’t encourage a mob to attack the Capitol to interfere with counting of the electoral ballots. And they haven’t spent the last 4 years undermining confidence in the election system. There are plenty of faults in the Democratic party, but “both sides” is a tired and inaccurate trope.
  - mistermann 2y ago
    I think it is funny to watch how people on a programming forum think "democracy" is a decent enough designed system. It is very interesting how the manner in which people think changes when the topic changes, and also how we focus only on the flaws in intelligence of the supposedly dumbest among us. > There are plenty of faults in the Democratic party, but “both sides” is a tired and inaccurate trope. Only if the claim is both sides are identically bad, which is rarely the case. It is amazing how simple memes (and boy, does our culture run on them) can inject bugs into cognition.
  - blasphemers 2y ago
    The Democrats have yet to remove or seriously call for Senator Menendez to resign for serious corruption and obvious crimes while the Republicans removed Santos for campaign lies knowing a Democrat would replace him.
    - kagakuninja 2y ago
      Bullshit. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-democratic-senators-baldwin-tester-call-menendezs-resignation-2023-09-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-democratic-senators-bald...
fortran77 2y ago
Fairness, justice, liberty.
- xenospn 2y ago
  I don’t think these words mean what you think they mean.
LargeWu 2y ago
A lot of it is just identity. They vote for Republicans because they are Republicans. It's that simple. You could introduce a moderate Democrat that ticks a lot of Republican policy boxes, and most Republicans still wouldn't vote for them.
neverartful 2y ago
Since you brought it up. Let's take your same question and apply it to Democrats. What do the Democrats align on, besides "Win at all cost" and "Trump is bad"?
- dheera 2y ago
  That's my point, they really don't. Democrats hail from several religions (and a lot of atheists) and have a lot of independent thinkers. They are not mass-"programmable" like religious Christians and Republicans are. Republicans can be mass-software-updated by their leaders very quickly. Democrats' lack of programmability makes it harder for them to align and win. Democrats tend to contain a lot of types of socially oppressed groups of people, each of which is fighting their own battle, but they cannot be bothered to fight another oppressed groups' battle. Democrats hail from multiple social classes that each want the other taxed more out of spite, not understanding that higher taxes of anyone in the economic food chain is going to make it harder for everyone.

dheera 2y ago

> what do the Republicans align on Christianity, God Bless America, conservative immigration law, well-being of rural people and small towns, second amendment, Made in USA, white-normalized culture ... Democrats very rarely align. They fight between factions about whether BLM, LGBT, or Stop Asian Hate is more important, ffs. They can't even come together and fight for all of the above.

macintux 2y ago
Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? And the IRA was a huge investment in “Made in USA”, whereas Trump spent years promoting an infrastructure week that never materialized.
- tshaddox 2y ago
  > Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. Evangelicals love Trump (in one of the biggest “this massive group of people clearly was lying about its stated moral principles” reveals in recent memory).
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    Evangelicals think a serial killer goes to heaven if he asks God for forgiveness when the executioner throws the switch.
- pstuart 2y ago
  > Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump One would think so, but they've embraced him as literally God's gift, and his appointments to SCOTUS are deeply religious.
- oceanplexian 2y ago
  > Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? Protectionist tariffs, particularly those imposed on Chinese imports were so popular that the Democratic party has silently endorsed and continued them through the Biden presidency.
  - LargeWu 2y ago
    Protectionism is only meaningful if we are protecting our own manufacturing, which has already largely disappeared. The CHIPS Act is one of Biden's crowning achievements and is more truly protectionist than anything Trump every got done.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >Christianity is a tough sell, given Trump. What are you talking about? Christians (American ones at least) absolutely love Trump. I'll probably get a bunch of replies here from non-Christian liberals making a bunch of theological claims about a religion they don't even believe in, but the people who decide what is or isn't "real Christianity" are the people who actually go to church and call themselves Christians, not a bunch of people who don't believe strongly in any religion. Talk all you want about how Trump doesn't exemplify so-called "Christian values", but that's totally irrelevant. The Americans who actually go to church every Sunday are showing up at Trump rallies like he's the Messiah's chosen one and they're voting for him, and of course defending him at every turn no matter how much you might think his words or actions don't align with your perception of the religion. >Other than promoting coal, what has Trump done for rural America’s economy? He's given it a lot of lip-service, and that's all that matters for these voters. And also very importantly, he delivered for rural America by installing a bunch of SCOTUS justices who managed to overturn Roe v Wade. How's that good for rural America's economy? It isn't, but that doesn't matter, because this issue was #1 or #2 for these voters, especially the ones that most strongly identified as "Christian". It's amazing how easy it is to see why Democrats keep losing elections to the MAGA crowd, and how they completely fail to understand their mentality and what's really important to them.
  - gwd 2y ago
    > What are you talking about? Christians (American ones at least) absolutely love Trump. I'll probably get a bunch of replies here from non-Christian liberals making a bunch of theological claims about a religion they don't even believe in, but the people who decide what is or isn't "real Christianity" are the people who actually go to church and call themselves Christians, not a bunch of people who don't believe strongly in any religion. How about a reply from an evangelical Christian who goes to Church? How about if I use words from Christ himself? “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ [1] From what I can tell, there are different camps of Evangelicals and "Evangelicals" voting for Trump. Let me say at the start that "Christian Nationalism" is an inherent contradiction in terms. Jesus over and over again had the opportunity to become a political power, and explicitly rejected it [2][3][4]. Anything trying to explicitly enforce "Christianity" with political power is out of line with Christ's teaching. This has always been true, but it is particularly true now. A lot of the people I see on TV pounding on about God and Christianity don't show any evidence that they know anything at all about Jesus; I don't have any reason to believe them to be Christians. Others are real Christians -- people trying to follow Jesus and take his teachings seriously -- who are simply deluded. They actually believe that the election was stolen; they actually believe that the trials against him are witch-hunts. They're not voting for Trump the person, but for an imaginary person they've been fed. Others are real Christians, and know that Trump is a vile man and a criminal, but somehow have convinced themselves that the Biden "crime family" and/or the Democrats are just as bad, and are cynically choosing someone they think will benefit their own group. Either they don't think a second Trump term will be worse than the first term, or they don't care. Consider the "gay wedding cake" case [5]. Evangelicals in loads of creative professions (including baking, photography, and so on) came perilously close to having to chose between violating their consciences or losing their livelihoods. Getting a solid majority of the court who would vote "their way" about these sorts of issues was considered by many to be worth the cost of a Trump presidency. (NB I'm not trying to make an argument either way about that case; rather, I'm trying to show the mindset of someone in 2015 deciding whether to vote for Trump or Hillary.) Also note that I don't consider any of these things excuses. Belief is not a morally neutral activity; there may be people who genuinely had no opportunity to understand Trump's true nature, but I don't think that applies to the vast majority of Christians who have an inaccurate picture of him; particularly after the warnings we have throughout the New Testament to be on our guard against people trying to control us. Furthermore, while we have the example of using the legal system to defend ourselves (in the case of Paul's various trials in Acts), we're also told to expect to persecuted for our beliefs. Hiring a lawyer is one thing; voting for a man like Trump is something completely different. And there are plenty of Evangelicals who are outspoken against Trump; but far too few. All that to say -- unfortunately, yes, Trump is popular with Christians and people who consider themselves Christians. [1] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-23&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7%3A21-... [2] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A9-11&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+4%3A9-1... [3] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A15&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+6%3A15&ver... [4] https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A36&version=NIV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+18%3A36&ve... [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colora...
jandrewrogers 2y ago
Christian conservatives are decidedly a minority in the Republican party, and increasingly marginalized. Much to the distress of that faction, the offical Republican platform no longer talks about gay marriage nor banning abortion except for late-term. The Republicans have moderated a lot over the last decade. Their current platform reads like the Democrat platform from the 2000s.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  Not "Christian conservatives", "Christian nationalists". The former have been extirpated but the latter are running the party.
- krapp 2y ago
  I don't think Christians are going to forsake the party that handed them the head of Roe V. Wade on a platter any time soon.

neverartful 2y ago

I would argue that 'win at all cost' is played by both parties. It's a form of 'the ends justify the means' and I really wish that people of both parties understood the long-term implications of that approach.

macintux 2y ago
Democrats encourage their fellow elected officials to step down when convicted of crimes. They notoriously don’t encourage a mob to attack the Capitol to interfere with counting of the electoral ballots. And they haven’t spent the last 4 years undermining confidence in the election system. There are plenty of faults in the Democratic party, but “both sides” is a tired and inaccurate trope.
- mistermann 2y ago
  I think it is funny to watch how people on a programming forum think "democracy" is a decent enough designed system. It is very interesting how the manner in which people think changes when the topic changes, and also how we focus only on the flaws in intelligence of the supposedly dumbest among us. > There are plenty of faults in the Democratic party, but “both sides” is a tired and inaccurate trope. Only if the claim is both sides are identically bad, which is rarely the case. It is amazing how simple memes (and boy, does our culture run on them) can inject bugs into cognition.
- blasphemers 2y ago
  The Democrats have yet to remove or seriously call for Senator Menendez to resign for serious corruption and obvious crimes while the Republicans removed Santos for campaign lies knowing a Democrat would replace him.
  - kagakuninja 2y ago
    Bullshit. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-democratic-senators-baldwin-tester-call-menendezs-resignation-2023-09-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-democratic-senators-bald...

fortran77 2y ago

Fairness, justice, liberty.

xenospn 2y ago
I don’t think these words mean what you think they mean.

LargeWu 2y ago

A lot of it is just identity. They vote for Republicans because they are Republicans. It's that simple. You could introduce a moderate Democrat that ticks a lot of Republican policy boxes, and most Republicans still wouldn't vote for them.

neverartful 2y ago

Since you brought it up. Let's take your same question and apply it to Democrats. What do the Democrats align on, besides "Win at all cost" and "Trump is bad"?

dheera 2y ago
That's my point, they really don't. Democrats hail from several religions (and a lot of atheists) and have a lot of independent thinkers. They are not mass-"programmable" like religious Christians and Republicans are. Republicans can be mass-software-updated by their leaders very quickly. Democrats' lack of programmability makes it harder for them to align and win. Democrats tend to contain a lot of types of socially oppressed groups of people, each of which is fighting their own battle, but they cannot be bothered to fight another oppressed groups' battle. Democrats hail from multiple social classes that each want the other taxed more out of spite, not understanding that higher taxes of anyone in the economic food chain is going to make it harder for everyone.