6 ms·

I've picked AMD over Intel too, but I've had so many issues with it that I partly regret it. Memory stability issues, extremely long boot times, too high voltag

I've picked AMD over Intel too, but I've had so many issues with it that I partly regret it. Memory stability issues, extremely long boot times, too high voltage, iGPU driver timeouts. Most of the issues have been fixed, but not all. After months of dealing with an annoying memory leak, I've just recently been able to confirm that it is caused by a Zen 4 iGPU driver.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago
Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and test) or temperature issues (the main reason we still use mobile i7-12700H was cheap ddr4 64GB ram stick kit, Iris media gpu drivers, and rtx CUDA gpu.) Intel has its own issues, Gigabyte told me to pound sand when asking to unlock the bios on my own equipment to disable IME. There is no greener grass on the fence line... just a different set of issues =3
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and test) Since he's taking about iGPU issues, he most likely has a laptop APU, so no RAM to reseat. I'm also having similar issues on my Ryzen 7000 laptop. Kinda regret upgrading from the Ryzen 5000 laptop which AMD obsoleted just 2 years after I bought it, as at least that had no issues. Hopefully new drivers in the future will fix stability but you never know. What I do know, is that this will most likely be my last AMD machine if Intel shows improvement to match AMD, since their Linux driver support is just top notch.
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    Depends on the failure mode, as it is common for specs to drift around under load (also, temperature cycling stresses PCB, and can shear BGA connections.) I'd try a slower cheap set of lower-bandwidth/higher-latency ram sticks to see if it stops glitching up. If you are using low latency sticks (iGPU means this is usually recommended), than dropping the performance a bit may stabilize your specific equipment. Of course, I'm not that smart... so YMMV... =3
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      There are no sticks in my laptop. I was taking about soldered RAM as is he norm on recent high speed LPDDR5X laptops.
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Please pull the chip maker/model off your rig: sudo apt-get install cpu-x sudo cpu-x We may still be able to use this information to compare with other users glitches to see if there is some underlying similarity. Unfortunately, if it is a thermal stress/warping on the PCB cracking open RAM BGA balls on chips or shifting traces... One won't really be able to completely identify the intermittent issue. We were actually looking at buying a similar economy model earlier this year (ended up with a few classic Lenovo models instead)... so please be verbose with the make/model to help future searchers =3
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        Can't be thermal, I checked.
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        X-ray vision like Superman I gather... nice... ;) Please dump the problematic cpu/ram chip model numbers to help other users. These chip manufacturer numbers is not really personally identifiable information, as they are shared between hundreds of thousands of products. The classic cpu-z for Windows users is here if you don't run *nix: https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html Best regards, =3
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        >X-ray vision like Superman I gather... nice... ;) That snarkyness is uncalled for. I repasted the laptop, ran benchmarks and checked the temperature sensors plus used my FLIR. It's no thermal issues. It's just AMD iGPU driver buggyness. Processors Information ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Socket 1 ID = 0 Number of cores 8 (max 8) Number of threads 16 (max 16) Secondary bus # 0 Number of CCDs 1 Manufacturer AuthenticAMD Name AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS Codename Phoenix Specification AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS with Radeon 780M Graphics Package Socket FP7 CPUID F.4.1 Extended CPUID 19.74 Core Stepping PHX-A1 Technology 4 nm TDP Limit 54.0 Watts Tjmax 90.0 °C Core Speed 2761.5 MHz Multiplier x Bus Speed 27.71 x 99.6 MHz Base frequency (cores) 99.6 MHz Base frequency (mem.) 99.6 MHz Instructions sets MMX (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, x86-64, AES, AVX, AVX2, AVX512 (DQ, BW, VL, CD, IFMA, VBMI, VBMI2, VNNI, BITALG, VPOPCNTDQ, BF16), FMA3, SHA Microcode Revision 0xA704104 L1 Data cache 8 x 32 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L1 Instruction cache 8 x 32 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L2 cache 8 x 1024 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L3 cache 16 MB (16-way, 64-byte line) Preferred cores 2 (#1, #3) Max CPUID level 0000000Dh Max CPUID ext. level 80000026h FID/VID Control yes # of P-States 3 P-State FID 0x898 - VID 0xBF (38.00x - 1.194 V) P-State FID 0x858 - VID 0xAB (22.00x - 1.069 V) P-State FID 0xA50 - VID 0x97 (16.00x - 0.944 V) PStateReg 0x80000000-0x49AFC898 PStateReg 0x80000000-0x45AAC858 PStateReg 0x80000000-0x4425CA50 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 Package Type 0x4 Model 00 String 1 0x0 String 2 0x0 Page 0x0 Power Unit 0.0 SMU Version 76.73.00 TDP/TJMAX 0x36005A TCTL Offset 0x0 PMTV 004C0008 Package Power Tracking (PPT) 54.0 W (current) Package Power Limit #1 (long) 35.0 W Package Power Limit #2 (short) 25.0 W DMI Physical Memory Array location Motherboard usage System Memory correction None max capacity 64 GB max# of devices 4 DMI Memory Device designation DIMM 0 format Row of chips type LPDDR5 total width 32 bits data width 32 bits size 8 GB speed 6400 MHz manufacturer Micron Technology part number MT62F2G32D4DS-026 WT serial number 00000000 voltage 0.500000 manufacturer id 0x2C80 product id 0x0 Display adapter 0 (primary) ID 0x2180003 Name AMD RadeonT 780M Board Manufacturer Lenovo Codename Phoenix Cores 768 ROP Units 16 Technology 4 nm Memory size 1024 MB Current Link Width x16 Current Link Speed 16.0 GT/s PCI device bus 99 (0x63), device 0 (0x0), function 0 (0x0) Vendor ID 0x1002 (0x17AA) Model ID 0x15BF (0x3819) Revision ID 0xC7 Root device bus 0 (0x0), device 8 (0x8), function 1 (0x1) Performance Level Current Core clock 800.0 MHz Shader clock 400.0 MHz Memory clock 800.0 MHz Driver version 32.0.11021.1011 WDDM Model 3.1
  - zigzag312 2y ago
    Desktop Ryzen 7950X. Increasing the VRAM size (UMA size) to 4 GB fixed the frequent driver timeouts for me. Reverting to older driver (driver cleaner -> driver v23.11.1) fixed the memory leak. This memory leak is weird since PoolMon doesn't show anything unusual. Nothing shows as using too much memory anywhere, except committed memory size grows to over 100GB after few days of uptime and RamMap shows a large amount of unused-active memory.
    - baq 2y ago
      GPUs have the most complex drivers in the whole system, we're talking tens of millions LOCs, so it is absolutely not surprising that you're having issues like that given how recent AMD's investment into APUs is. I wouldn't use them for a few more years; get a cheap discrete GPU from nvidia or maybe even from Intel.
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        The rtx3090 is an Ampere gpu, and will apparently be supported in the new open nVidia driver release. Should get interesting soon =)
        sekh60 2y ago
        In Nova? Or just the in-kernel component?
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Press release: https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-fully-towards-open-source-gpu-kernel-modules/ https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-fully-t... Yet to personally try it out, but this should eventually enable better integration with the library ecosystems. =3
      - onli 2y ago
        Hm? AMD's investing in APUs is not a new thing, that's going back to the FX days with their FM1 socket. Since Ryzen 1 they have their G APUs, and their integrated graphics power the steamdeck and many other mobile handhelds. Plus, Intel's integrated graphics are known for their driver issues (and so is Arc, for now), so I'd disagree with that recommendation.
- zigzag312 2y ago
  I did ~12h RAM test few times and it always passed successfully (except when I was testing EXPO profile on early BIOS version). I also did Prime95 CPU stress testing a few times without issues. All issues seem to be related to either BIOS or drivers.
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    Pleas join the branch discussing the idea of using slower/cheaper RAM. What is your current ram chip model, maker, and configuration on your machine? sudo apt-get install cpu-x sudo cpu-x Cheers, =3
    - zigzag312 2y ago
      Corsair Vengeance 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MHz C36. Module Part Number: CMH64GX5M2B5600C36. DRAM manufactured by Samsung. Running RAM at default speeds (4800MHz) or using XMP profile 5600MHz C36 doesn't affect these issues (they are no more or less frequent). EDIT: XMP profile, not EXPO.
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Thanks for helping the other users =3
        zigzag312 2y ago
        Some more info if it helps anyone: CPU Ryzen 9 7950X. Family: F (ext.: 19), Model: 1 (ext.: 61), Stepping: 2, Revision: RPL-B2. iGPU: Raphael, revision: C1. MB: ASUS TUF Gaming X670E-PLUS WiFi. Rev 1.xx. Southbridge rev.: 51.
teeheelol 2y ago
I would never buy an AMD machine again after my last Ryzen 3600X. So many issues. It had to be power cycled 2-3 times to get it to boot. Memory corruption issues and stability issues galore. Not overclocked. Stock configuration. Decent quality board and power supply. Just hell. Swapped board out assuming it was that. Same problem. Turned out to be the CPU which was a pain in the ass getting a warranty replacement for. Ended up buying a new open box Intel 12400 Lenovo lump off eBay and using that.
- plasticchris 2y ago
  An issue with these parts was that the OOB config wasn’t very good - even if you knew to turn on the XMP profiles it still threw a ridiculous amount of voltage at the chip in pursuit of a few percent performance increase.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > Decent quality board Which board was it?
  - teeheelol 2y ago
    Tried an MSI B550 initially. Think the second one was an Asus B550. The CPU swap did work ok the original board! But at that point I was using the Lenovo box. So I just sold all the crap on eBay for the next victim.
    - justinclift 2y ago
      Interesting. MSI doesn't really have a fantastic reputation for boards, and apparently ASUS's quality isn't that good any more either. :( For my Ryzen 5000 series build (a while ago now) I went with an ASRock board for ECC support, and also ECC ram. It's been mostly flawless, though as I'm undervolting the ram it does let me know about an ECC corrected error once every 6-9 months or so. ;)
      - milankragujevic 2y ago
washadjeffmad 2y ago
I built an Intel workstation for the first time in two decades when the 13700K was released. It hasn't been a bed of roses, starting with thermal throttling from the LGA1700 socket bending the IHS so badly that the heatsink only contacted it in a strip down the middle, needing to physically reseat the onboard HDMI for the display signal to resume after the monitor is disconnected, a generally boiling TDP, DDR5 quirks like 5-minute training times (no blame here, just didn't expect my servers to boot faster), and generally having goofier names for UEFI options designed around overclocking. I still don't know how to use XTU. Couple that with the underwhelming software support for AI/ML on their own hardware for about a year after CPU and GPU launch, and I wish I'd just stuck to AMD. I don't think either are perfect, but it's the devil you know, and I've grown to trust that even when AMD cocks something up, they'll listen to customers, coordinate engineering efforts with OEMs, and handle it. Intel are either too high and mighty or don't empower their engineers to treat partners like partners without layers of management getting involved to be able to do something similar.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago
  > Couple that with the underwhelming software support for AI/ML on their own hardware for about a year after CPU and GPU launch, and I wish I'd just stuck to AMD. What support did AMD have?
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    Choosing Intel brought no advantage over AMD. What support did AMD need to overcome that?
    - ffgjgf1 2y ago
      Seems like a strange way to express that point? Why mention underwhelming support for AI/ML if it’s the same on both? (if we’re talking about desktop chips I don’t even understand what’s that supposed to mean).

Joel_Mckay 2y ago

Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and test) or temperature issues (the main reason we still use mobile i7-12700H was cheap ddr4 64GB ram stick kit, Iris media gpu drivers, and rtx CUDA gpu.) Intel has its own issues, Gigabyte told me to pound sand when asking to unlock the bios on my own equipment to disable IME. There is no greener grass on the fence line... just a different set of issues =3

Rinzler89 2y ago
>Sounds like bad ram (clean contacts, re-seat, and test) Since he's taking about iGPU issues, he most likely has a laptop APU, so no RAM to reseat. I'm also having similar issues on my Ryzen 7000 laptop. Kinda regret upgrading from the Ryzen 5000 laptop which AMD obsoleted just 2 years after I bought it, as at least that had no issues. Hopefully new drivers in the future will fix stability but you never know. What I do know, is that this will most likely be my last AMD machine if Intel shows improvement to match AMD, since their Linux driver support is just top notch.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Depends on the failure mode, as it is common for specs to drift around under load (also, temperature cycling stresses PCB, and can shear BGA connections.) I'd try a slower cheap set of lower-bandwidth/higher-latency ram sticks to see if it stops glitching up. If you are using low latency sticks (iGPU means this is usually recommended), than dropping the performance a bit may stabilize your specific equipment. Of course, I'm not that smart... so YMMV... =3
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    There are no sticks in my laptop. I was taking about soldered RAM as is he norm on recent high speed LPDDR5X laptops.
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      Please pull the chip maker/model off your rig: sudo apt-get install cpu-x sudo cpu-x We may still be able to use this information to compare with other users glitches to see if there is some underlying similarity. Unfortunately, if it is a thermal stress/warping on the PCB cracking open RAM BGA balls on chips or shifting traces... One won't really be able to completely identify the intermittent issue. We were actually looking at buying a similar economy model earlier this year (ended up with a few classic Lenovo models instead)... so please be verbose with the make/model to help future searchers =3
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        Can't be thermal, I checked.
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        X-ray vision like Superman I gather... nice... ;) Please dump the problematic cpu/ram chip model numbers to help other users. These chip manufacturer numbers is not really personally identifiable information, as they are shared between hundreds of thousands of products. The classic cpu-z for Windows users is here if you don't run *nix: https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html Best regards, =3
        Rinzler89 2y ago
        >X-ray vision like Superman I gather... nice... ;) That snarkyness is uncalled for. I repasted the laptop, ran benchmarks and checked the temperature sensors plus used my FLIR. It's no thermal issues. It's just AMD iGPU driver buggyness. Processors Information ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Socket 1 ID = 0 Number of cores 8 (max 8) Number of threads 16 (max 16) Secondary bus # 0 Number of CCDs 1 Manufacturer AuthenticAMD Name AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS Codename Phoenix Specification AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS with Radeon 780M Graphics Package Socket FP7 CPUID F.4.1 Extended CPUID 19.74 Core Stepping PHX-A1 Technology 4 nm TDP Limit 54.0 Watts Tjmax 90.0 °C Core Speed 2761.5 MHz Multiplier x Bus Speed 27.71 x 99.6 MHz Base frequency (cores) 99.6 MHz Base frequency (mem.) 99.6 MHz Instructions sets MMX (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, x86-64, AES, AVX, AVX2, AVX512 (DQ, BW, VL, CD, IFMA, VBMI, VBMI2, VNNI, BITALG, VPOPCNTDQ, BF16), FMA3, SHA Microcode Revision 0xA704104 L1 Data cache 8 x 32 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L1 Instruction cache 8 x 32 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L2 cache 8 x 1024 KB (8-way, 64-byte line) L3 cache 16 MB (16-way, 64-byte line) Preferred cores 2 (#1, #3) Max CPUID level 0000000Dh Max CPUID ext. level 80000026h FID/VID Control yes # of P-States 3 P-State FID 0x898 - VID 0xBF (38.00x - 1.194 V) P-State FID 0x858 - VID 0xAB (22.00x - 1.069 V) P-State FID 0xA50 - VID 0x97 (16.00x - 0.944 V) PStateReg 0x80000000-0x49AFC898 PStateReg 0x80000000-0x45AAC858 PStateReg 0x80000000-0x4425CA50 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 PStateReg 0x00000000-0x00000000 Package Type 0x4 Model 00 String 1 0x0 String 2 0x0 Page 0x0 Power Unit 0.0 SMU Version 76.73.00 TDP/TJMAX 0x36005A TCTL Offset 0x0 PMTV 004C0008 Package Power Tracking (PPT) 54.0 W (current) Package Power Limit #1 (long) 35.0 W Package Power Limit #2 (short) 25.0 W DMI Physical Memory Array location Motherboard usage System Memory correction None max capacity 64 GB max# of devices 4 DMI Memory Device designation DIMM 0 format Row of chips type LPDDR5 total width 32 bits data width 32 bits size 8 GB speed 6400 MHz manufacturer Micron Technology part number MT62F2G32D4DS-026 WT serial number 00000000 voltage 0.500000 manufacturer id 0x2C80 product id 0x0 Display adapter 0 (primary) ID 0x2180003 Name AMD RadeonT 780M Board Manufacturer Lenovo Codename Phoenix Cores 768 ROP Units 16 Technology 4 nm Memory size 1024 MB Current Link Width x16 Current Link Speed 16.0 GT/s PCI device bus 99 (0x63), device 0 (0x0), function 0 (0x0) Vendor ID 0x1002 (0x17AA) Model ID 0x15BF (0x3819) Revision ID 0xC7 Root device bus 0 (0x0), device 8 (0x8), function 1 (0x1) Performance Level Current Core clock 800.0 MHz Shader clock 400.0 MHz Memory clock 800.0 MHz Driver version 32.0.11021.1011 WDDM Model 3.1
- zigzag312 2y ago
  Desktop Ryzen 7950X. Increasing the VRAM size (UMA size) to 4 GB fixed the frequent driver timeouts for me. Reverting to older driver (driver cleaner -> driver v23.11.1) fixed the memory leak. This memory leak is weird since PoolMon doesn't show anything unusual. Nothing shows as using too much memory anywhere, except committed memory size grows to over 100GB after few days of uptime and RamMap shows a large amount of unused-active memory.
  - baq 2y ago
    GPUs have the most complex drivers in the whole system, we're talking tens of millions LOCs, so it is absolutely not surprising that you're having issues like that given how recent AMD's investment into APUs is. I wouldn't use them for a few more years; get a cheap discrete GPU from nvidia or maybe even from Intel.
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      The rtx3090 is an Ampere gpu, and will apparently be supported in the new open nVidia driver release. Should get interesting soon =)
      - sekh60 2y ago
        In Nova? Or just the in-kernel component?
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Press release: https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-fully-towards-open-source-gpu-kernel-modules/ https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/nvidia-transitions-fully-t... Yet to personally try it out, but this should eventually enable better integration with the library ecosystems. =3
    - onli 2y ago
      Hm? AMD's investing in APUs is not a new thing, that's going back to the FX days with their FM1 socket. Since Ryzen 1 they have their G APUs, and their integrated graphics power the steamdeck and many other mobile handhelds. Plus, Intel's integrated graphics are known for their driver issues (and so is Arc, for now), so I'd disagree with that recommendation.
zigzag312 2y ago
I did ~12h RAM test few times and it always passed successfully (except when I was testing EXPO profile on early BIOS version). I also did Prime95 CPU stress testing a few times without issues. All issues seem to be related to either BIOS or drivers.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Pleas join the branch discussing the idea of using slower/cheaper RAM. What is your current ram chip model, maker, and configuration on your machine? sudo apt-get install cpu-x sudo cpu-x Cheers, =3
  - zigzag312 2y ago
    Corsair Vengeance 64GB (2x32GB) 5600MHz C36. Module Part Number: CMH64GX5M2B5600C36. DRAM manufactured by Samsung. Running RAM at default speeds (4800MHz) or using XMP profile 5600MHz C36 doesn't affect these issues (they are no more or less frequent). EDIT: XMP profile, not EXPO.
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      Thanks for helping the other users =3
      - zigzag312 2y ago
        Some more info if it helps anyone: CPU Ryzen 9 7950X. Family: F (ext.: 19), Model: 1 (ext.: 61), Stepping: 2, Revision: RPL-B2. iGPU: Raphael, revision: C1. MB: ASUS TUF Gaming X670E-PLUS WiFi. Rev 1.xx. Southbridge rev.: 51.

teeheelol 2y ago

I would never buy an AMD machine again after my last Ryzen 3600X. So many issues. It had to be power cycled 2-3 times to get it to boot. Memory corruption issues and stability issues galore. Not overclocked. Stock configuration. Decent quality board and power supply. Just hell. Swapped board out assuming it was that. Same problem. Turned out to be the CPU which was a pain in the ass getting a warranty replacement for. Ended up buying a new open box Intel 12400 Lenovo lump off eBay and using that.

plasticchris 2y ago
An issue with these parts was that the OOB config wasn’t very good - even if you knew to turn on the XMP profiles it still threw a ridiculous amount of voltage at the chip in pursuit of a few percent performance increase.
justinclift 2y ago
> Decent quality board Which board was it?
- teeheelol 2y ago
  Tried an MSI B550 initially. Think the second one was an Asus B550. The CPU swap did work ok the original board! But at that point I was using the Lenovo box. So I just sold all the crap on eBay for the next victim.
  - justinclift 2y ago
    Interesting. MSI doesn't really have a fantastic reputation for boards, and apparently ASUS's quality isn't that good any more either. :( For my Ryzen 5000 series build (a while ago now) I went with an ASRock board for ECC support, and also ECC ram. It's been mostly flawless, though as I'm undervolting the ram it does let me know about an ECC corrected error once every 6-9 months or so. ;)
    - milankragujevic 2y ago

washadjeffmad 2y ago

I built an Intel workstation for the first time in two decades when the 13700K was released. It hasn't been a bed of roses, starting with thermal throttling from the LGA1700 socket bending the IHS so badly that the heatsink only contacted it in a strip down the middle, needing to physically reseat the onboard HDMI for the display signal to resume after the monitor is disconnected, a generally boiling TDP, DDR5 quirks like 5-minute training times (no blame here, just didn't expect my servers to boot faster), and generally having goofier names for UEFI options designed around overclocking. I still don't know how to use XTU. Couple that with the underwhelming software support for AI/ML on their own hardware for about a year after CPU and GPU launch, and I wish I'd just stuck to AMD. I don't think either are perfect, but it's the devil you know, and I've grown to trust that even when AMD cocks something up, they'll listen to customers, coordinate engineering efforts with OEMs, and handle it. Intel are either too high and mighty or don't empower their engineers to treat partners like partners without layers of management getting involved to be able to do something similar.

ffgjgf1 2y ago
> Couple that with the underwhelming software support for AI/ML on their own hardware for about a year after CPU and GPU launch, and I wish I'd just stuck to AMD. What support did AMD have?
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  Choosing Intel brought no advantage over AMD. What support did AMD need to overcome that?
  - ffgjgf1 2y ago
    Seems like a strange way to express that point? Why mention underwhelming support for AI/ML if it’s the same on both? (if we’re talking about desktop chips I don’t even understand what’s that supposed to mean).