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Bit worried if honestly Apple maps can ever stack up to Google. We use directions with public transportation all the time, and if that's missing from Apple maps

Bit worried if honestly Apple maps can ever stack up to Google. We use directions with public transportation all the time, and if that's missing from Apple maps, it will be a significant decrease in experience.

purephase 14y ago
It is odd. It is missing but the icon is still there in the app. It looks like it simply lists apps available in the app store that provide routing services (none are displayed though). Walking directions work. Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps. Turn by turn is nice though. Something that Google Maps should have implemented a long time ago. It will interesting to see what the Google Maps app introduces and whether Apple accepts it.
- cube13 14y ago
  >Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps. Turn by turn is nice though. Something that Google Maps should have implemented a long time ago. The build-in Android map application has had turn by turn for some time now.
  - kevhsu 14y ago
    Indeed. Google could have implemented it on iOS if they had wanted to, but that was a pretty big selling point for some people to get an Android phone over iOS. At least it was for me when I bought my Nexus One unlocked after eBaying a free-on-contract HTC Pure instead of getting the iPhone 3G(S? not sure if it was out back then)
    - eco 14y ago
      I was under the impression that the current iOS map app was created by Apple but used Google's API for data. I could be mistaken.
    - Zaim3 14y ago
      "Indeed. Google could have implemented it on iOS if they had wanted to, but that was a pretty big selling point for some people to get an Android phone over iOS." No they couldn't, Apple controlled the app, Google was just the pipe. A recent WSJ article claims that both Google and Apple wanted feature parity/turn by turn, but Google wanted an increased amount of Google branding in exchange which Apple refused so they ultimately couldn't come to terms.
    - kizza 14y ago
      Maybe they didn't want to take the risk of it being rejected as 'duplicating existing functionality'. I know that some apps have got through nowadays, but has the policy changed to allow this, or is Apple allowing these on a case-by-case basis?
      - cube13 14y ago
        No, they didn't do it because Apple was already paying them to use their maps. If they came out with their own Google Maps application that had feature parity with the Android app, I would imagine that most iOS users would switch immediately to that app instead of Apple's built-in one. That could have potentially cost Google a lot of money, assuming that Apple was paying on a per-use basis.
  - iamben 14y ago
    Assuming the poster means Google Maps on the iPhone, which doesn't have turn by turn? (fwiw, turn by turn and maps are great on my Android)
    - purephase 14y ago
      I was referring to the default maps app in iOS. Not Android. Thanks for clarifying.
- alanfalcon 14y ago
  IIRC, Apple said in the keynote that the app community handles public transportation routing and other services better than they could, and so they'll provide the hooks and leave it for people to find apps that they like to handle that aspect.
  - luchak 14y ago
    Better than Apple can without Google? Maybe. Better than the existing Maps app? I use transit directions in Maps a lot and the transit apps I've downloaded very rarely. I'm skeptical about this.
  - nodesocket 14y ago
    That's exactly the problem, don't want to open another application to find which bus to take and when, we want it integrated into maps.
    - jsz0 14y ago
      I like Apple's approach. For example a transit authority could have an application that for example included real-time GPS tracking of buses, they could have options in the app to buy passes, request stops, etc, etc. Within the Google Map's ecosystem it seems to me they would have to wait around for Google to do support all this. It's a very top heavy approach. It looks like Apple wants to basically build a mini-app store inside of Maps.
      - alxp 14y ago
        Not holding my breath. Cash-strapped transit authorities are not going to be able to drive innovation here and losing the integration with maps will mean you'll have to know ahead of time that a transit route is available on your journey.
        justincormack 14y ago
        They just have to provide APIs and other people will do the integration.
- Zirro 14y ago
  "Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps." Which kind of quality are you referring to? Image-wise? In terms accurate representations of the environment?
  - purephase 14y ago
    Image quality. I realize that they're most likely from OpenStreetMap and I applaud the project but Google Map image quality is hard to beat.
rplnt 14y ago
If I remember correctly the Apple maps are/will be based on Openstreetmap project. If that's the cas, and Apple will provide content to the open community then I think it's great idea they are moving on from Google. But with Apple's history in basically everything my hopes for them helping the Openstreetmaps are low.
- duaneb 14y ago
  I think it's really great to have some competition in the maps world (Google, OpenStreetMap, Apple, Bing, MapQuest), but I'm worried that Apple won't allow Google maps to put out their own app on iOS, meaning if it's inferior, we're stuck with it.
  - dr42 14y ago
    Yes. I wont be updating to IOS 6 unless there is a choice of mapping apps. I'm sure Apple maps will be a good product, but unless it's really as good as Google, or I can still install a Google maps app, then I will not update to 6. I'm less concerned about transit and walking routing (because I am sure Apple will get there), but more concerned about search of maps. OSM search is currently nowhere near the level of Google maps search. On google maps I can search for things like "usps near south lake tahoe" and it do what I expect. Try that on OSM, or anything remotely not a well formed address. Google maps has some sophisticated logic for biasing towards current location, and it knows the names of places, like 'moscone center', or 'facebook offices'. And of coruse, I cna mispel them all and it still find it. If Apple maps can't do the same, then no matter how pretty the 3D view is, it will disable one of the main (for me) functions of the device.
    - edge17 14y ago
      you shouldn't ignore that Apple's trying to do what it's taken Google 10 years to do. They'll get it right, but expecting feature parity on day one isn't reasonable. At the end of the day there are humans making all this stuff work.
      - 14y ago
frankus 14y ago
I think we'll have a Google Maps iOS app in short order. They'll have to do some hardcore OpenGL hacking (reimplement CATiledLayer) to get it working as smoothly as the current maps app without using private APIs though (cf. https://github.com/frankus/NetPhotoScroller https://github.com/frankus/NetPhotoScroller)
idspispopd 14y ago
I'd say initially it will be substandard in some ways, noting a lack of streetview for example, however it's very likely to receive constant updates to bring it into feature parity. Interestingly (or rather) surprisingly Apple maps already has 20M more business listings than Google. Apple maintaining robust business listings is required by Maps and Siri, which currently is lacking business listings outside of the USA. (The two are also an obvious pair for the user.) Both Google(Where2, ZipDash, Keyhole, Endoxon, ImageAmerica, Quiksee & Zagat) and Apple(Placebase, Poly9 & C3) have formed their mapping arms via acquisitions. Both companies are large and well resourced enough to innovate here. It's looking good for both platforms.

purephase 14y ago

It is odd. It is missing but the icon is still there in the app. It looks like it simply lists apps available in the app store that provide routing services (none are displayed though). Walking directions work. Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps. Turn by turn is nice though. Something that Google Maps should have implemented a long time ago. It will interesting to see what the Google Maps app introduces and whether Apple accepts it.

cube13 14y ago
>Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps. Turn by turn is nice though. Something that Google Maps should have implemented a long time ago. The build-in Android map application has had turn by turn for some time now.
- kevhsu 14y ago
  Indeed. Google could have implemented it on iOS if they had wanted to, but that was a pretty big selling point for some people to get an Android phone over iOS. At least it was for me when I bought my Nexus One unlocked after eBaying a free-on-contract HTC Pure instead of getting the iPhone 3G(S? not sure if it was out back then)
  - eco 14y ago
    I was under the impression that the current iOS map app was created by Apple but used Google's API for data. I could be mistaken.
  - Zaim3 14y ago
    "Indeed. Google could have implemented it on iOS if they had wanted to, but that was a pretty big selling point for some people to get an Android phone over iOS." No they couldn't, Apple controlled the app, Google was just the pipe. A recent WSJ article claims that both Google and Apple wanted feature parity/turn by turn, but Google wanted an increased amount of Google branding in exchange which Apple refused so they ultimately couldn't come to terms.
  - kizza 14y ago
    Maybe they didn't want to take the risk of it being rejected as 'duplicating existing functionality'. I know that some apps have got through nowadays, but has the policy changed to allow this, or is Apple allowing these on a case-by-case basis?
    - cube13 14y ago
      No, they didn't do it because Apple was already paying them to use their maps. If they came out with their own Google Maps application that had feature parity with the Android app, I would imagine that most iOS users would switch immediately to that app instead of Apple's built-in one. That could have potentially cost Google a lot of money, assuming that Apple was paying on a per-use basis.
- iamben 14y ago
  Assuming the poster means Google Maps on the iPhone, which doesn't have turn by turn? (fwiw, turn by turn and maps are great on my Android)
  - purephase 14y ago
    I was referring to the default maps app in iOS. Not Android. Thanks for clarifying.
alanfalcon 14y ago
IIRC, Apple said in the keynote that the app community handles public transportation routing and other services better than they could, and so they'll provide the hooks and leave it for people to find apps that they like to handle that aspect.
- luchak 14y ago
  Better than Apple can without Google? Maybe. Better than the existing Maps app? I use transit directions in Maps a lot and the transit apps I've downloaded very rarely. I'm skeptical about this.
- nodesocket 14y ago
  That's exactly the problem, don't want to open another application to find which bus to take and when, we want it integrated into maps.
  - jsz0 14y ago
    I like Apple's approach. For example a transit authority could have an application that for example included real-time GPS tracking of buses, they could have options in the app to buy passes, request stops, etc, etc. Within the Google Map's ecosystem it seems to me they would have to wait around for Google to do support all this. It's a very top heavy approach. It looks like Apple wants to basically build a mini-app store inside of Maps.
    - alxp 14y ago
      Not holding my breath. Cash-strapped transit authorities are not going to be able to drive innovation here and losing the integration with maps will mean you'll have to know ahead of time that a transit route is available on your journey.
      - justincormack 14y ago
        They just have to provide APIs and other people will do the integration.
Zirro 14y ago
"Also, the maps are (IMO) significantly worse in quality than Google Maps." Which kind of quality are you referring to? Image-wise? In terms accurate representations of the environment?
- purephase 14y ago
  Image quality. I realize that they're most likely from OpenStreetMap and I applaud the project but Google Map image quality is hard to beat.

rplnt 14y ago

If I remember correctly the Apple maps are/will be based on Openstreetmap project. If that's the cas, and Apple will provide content to the open community then I think it's great idea they are moving on from Google. But with Apple's history in basically everything my hopes for them helping the Openstreetmaps are low.

duaneb 14y ago
I think it's really great to have some competition in the maps world (Google, OpenStreetMap, Apple, Bing, MapQuest), but I'm worried that Apple won't allow Google maps to put out their own app on iOS, meaning if it's inferior, we're stuck with it.
- dr42 14y ago
  Yes. I wont be updating to IOS 6 unless there is a choice of mapping apps. I'm sure Apple maps will be a good product, but unless it's really as good as Google, or I can still install a Google maps app, then I will not update to 6. I'm less concerned about transit and walking routing (because I am sure Apple will get there), but more concerned about search of maps. OSM search is currently nowhere near the level of Google maps search. On google maps I can search for things like "usps near south lake tahoe" and it do what I expect. Try that on OSM, or anything remotely not a well formed address. Google maps has some sophisticated logic for biasing towards current location, and it knows the names of places, like 'moscone center', or 'facebook offices'. And of coruse, I cna mispel them all and it still find it. If Apple maps can't do the same, then no matter how pretty the 3D view is, it will disable one of the main (for me) functions of the device.
  - edge17 14y ago
    you shouldn't ignore that Apple's trying to do what it's taken Google 10 years to do. They'll get it right, but expecting feature parity on day one isn't reasonable. At the end of the day there are humans making all this stuff work.
    - 14y ago

frankus 14y ago

I think we'll have a Google Maps iOS app in short order. They'll have to do some hardcore OpenGL hacking (reimplement CATiledLayer) to get it working as smoothly as the current maps app without using private APIs though (cf. https://github.com/frankus/NetPhotoScroller https://github.com/frankus/NetPhotoScroller)

idspispopd 14y ago

I'd say initially it will be substandard in some ways, noting a lack of streetview for example, however it's very likely to receive constant updates to bring it into feature parity. Interestingly (or rather) surprisingly Apple maps already has 20M more business listings than Google. Apple maintaining robust business listings is required by Maps and Siri, which currently is lacking business listings outside of the USA. (The two are also an obvious pair for the user.) Both Google(Where2, ZipDash, Keyhole, Endoxon, ImageAmerica, Quiksee & Zagat) and Apple(Placebase, Poly9 & C3) have formed their mapping arms via acquisitions. Both companies are large and well resourced enough to innovate here. It's looking good for both platforms.