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I don't see what this comment adds to the discussion. If you disagree with the numbers, what source would you use instead? China is building more renewable ener

by drekk 2y ago

I don't see what this comment adds to the discussion. If you disagree with the numbers, what source would you use instead? China is building more renewable energy than the rest of the world combined, and it's verifiable by satellite imagery.

Borg3 2y ago
China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined, so not really a difference. The question is, do we have any breakthru in energy storage technology there?
- janalsncm 2y ago
  That’s because decades of neoliberal economics have moved a huge amount of manufacturing to China. The U.S. used to be very dirty in manufacturing towns, but we moved factories to China which has the double benefit of cleaning up our environment and allowing us to blame them!
- aaronblohowiak 2y ago
  They are leaders in (very long) HVDC and UHVDC which helps bring energy from west to east, an alternative to building lots of time-shifting capacity.
- tziki 2y ago
  >China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined This isn't obviously true even with a cursory glance at the statistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...). This isn't the forum to fire off false one-liners.
  - kkfx 2y ago
    Not GP but... I have some doubt on Wikipedia data: I'm from Italy, living in France, and well... Italy is the ONLY (AFAIK) country in the world with a mean domestic electricity contract limited at 3kW, here it's common 36kW (12 per phase) just as a small comparison, so I highly doubt a mean Italian can consume 5MWh/year... Of course data per-se are the same Terna (the grid operator) cite, but I think they have computed something weird mixing industry and residential, because: - in Italy only very few have electricity to heat - A/C is still not that common - BEVs are still not common at all While in France electrical heating is definitively common, albeit not the sole source of heat for most. Essentially: I think such data need much more proof on how they are collected before being trusted.
    - Arnt 2y ago
      I think the factor you're overlooking may be the use by industry.
    - coumbaya 2y ago
      36kW is far from common in france. Heck, event 3-phase is not that common. I've never known anyone with 36kW except farmers. According to ADEME, 6kW is the most common with 70% of (I think) non-commercial subscriptions.
      - kkfx 2y ago
        I'm in Alpes de Haute Provence, essentially al homes here are three-phase 36kVA to be precise witch is a little less than 36kW indeed. New homes tend to be 12kW monophase if there is no pool or EVs. Only apartments are 6-9kW. 6kW is the minimum you can get, the cheapest offer, but it's mostly a city thing. Not so small apartments are 9, old homes with new contracts vary from 9-12 mono or 36 threephase but while I have no general statistics that's still pretty common in the "countryside".

by drekk 2y ago

Borg3 2y ago

China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined, so not really a difference. The question is, do we have any breakthru in energy storage technology there?

janalsncm 2y ago
That’s because decades of neoliberal economics have moved a huge amount of manufacturing to China. The U.S. used to be very dirty in manufacturing towns, but we moved factories to China which has the double benefit of cleaning up our environment and allowing us to blame them!
aaronblohowiak 2y ago
They are leaders in (very long) HVDC and UHVDC which helps bring energy from west to east, an alternative to building lots of time-shifting capacity.
tziki 2y ago
>China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined This isn't obviously true even with a cursory glance at the statistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...). This isn't the forum to fire off false one-liners.
- kkfx 2y ago
  Not GP but... I have some doubt on Wikipedia data: I'm from Italy, living in France, and well... Italy is the ONLY (AFAIK) country in the world with a mean domestic electricity contract limited at 3kW, here it's common 36kW (12 per phase) just as a small comparison, so I highly doubt a mean Italian can consume 5MWh/year... Of course data per-se are the same Terna (the grid operator) cite, but I think they have computed something weird mixing industry and residential, because: - in Italy only very few have electricity to heat - A/C is still not that common - BEVs are still not common at all While in France electrical heating is definitively common, albeit not the sole source of heat for most. Essentially: I think such data need much more proof on how they are collected before being trusted.
  - Arnt 2y ago
    I think the factor you're overlooking may be the use by industry.
  - coumbaya 2y ago
    36kW is far from common in france. Heck, event 3-phase is not that common. I've never known anyone with 36kW except farmers. According to ADEME, 6kW is the most common with 70% of (I think) non-commercial subscriptions.
    - kkfx 2y ago
      I'm in Alpes de Haute Provence, essentially al homes here are three-phase 36kVA to be precise witch is a little less than 36kW indeed. New homes tend to be 12kW monophase if there is no pool or EVs. Only apartments are 6-9kW. 6kW is the minimum you can get, the cheapest offer, but it's mostly a city thing. Not so small apartments are 9, old homes with new contracts vary from 9-12 mono or 36 threephase but while I have no general statistics that's still pretty common in the "countryside".