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China is on track to reach its 2030 clean energy targets already

34 points by Arnt 2y ago

strgtwhtmle 2y ago
[flagged]
- drekk 2y ago
  I don't see what this comment adds to the discussion. If you disagree with the numbers, what source would you use instead? China is building more renewable energy than the rest of the world combined, and it's verifiable by satellite imagery.
  - Borg3 2y ago
    China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined, so not really a difference. The question is, do we have any breakthru in energy storage technology there?
    - janalsncm 2y ago
      That’s because decades of neoliberal economics have moved a huge amount of manufacturing to China. The U.S. used to be very dirty in manufacturing towns, but we moved factories to China which has the double benefit of cleaning up our environment and allowing us to blame them!
    - aaronblohowiak 2y ago
      They are leaders in (very long) HVDC and UHVDC which helps bring energy from west to east, an alternative to building lots of time-shifting capacity.
    - tziki 2y ago
      >China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined This isn't obviously true even with a cursory glance at the statistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...). This isn't the forum to fire off false one-liners.
      - kkfx 2y ago
        Not GP but... I have some doubt on Wikipedia data: I'm from Italy, living in France, and well... Italy is the ONLY (AFAIK) country in the world with a mean domestic electricity contract limited at 3kW, here it's common 36kW (12 per phase) just as a small comparison, so I highly doubt a mean Italian can consume 5MWh/year... Of course data per-se are the same Terna (the grid operator) cite, but I think they have computed something weird mixing industry and residential, because: - in Italy only very few have electricity to heat - A/C is still not that common - BEVs are still not common at all While in France electrical heating is definitively common, albeit not the sole source of heat for most. Essentially: I think such data need much more proof on how they are collected before being trusted.
        Arnt 2y ago
        I think the factor you're overlooking may be the use by industry.
        coumbaya 2y ago
        36kW is far from common in france. Heck, event 3-phase is not that common. I've never known anyone with 36kW except farmers. According to ADEME, 6kW is the most common with 70% of (I think) non-commercial subscriptions.
        kkfx 2y ago
        I'm in Alpes de Haute Provence, essentially al homes here are three-phase 36kVA to be precise witch is a little less than 36kW indeed. New homes tend to be 12kW monophase if there is no pool or EVs. Only apartments are 6-9kW. 6kW is the minimum you can get, the cheapest offer, but it's mostly a city thing. Not so small apartments are 9, old homes with new contracts vary from 9-12 mono or 36 threephase but while I have no general statistics that's still pretty common in the "countryside".
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Retric 2y ago
> China, the most populous nation in the world India is likely the most populous nation though there’s some uncertainty. China reached zero population growth first so it’s just a question of timing at this point. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sva_ 2y ago
This page does something horrible with the back button
akira2501 2y ago
The report itself is a little more down to earth: "Based on current progress, CEF believes it is entirely feasible for China to significantly slow the expansion of its thermal energy infrastructure and halt the construction of new coal power plants before 2030." Now you just have to hope their GDP remains stable and that the government actually can keep interest rates artificially low for the next 15 straight years.
- lostmsu 2y ago
  Why 15 straight years?
  - akira2501 2y ago
    There are two curves. The hope is one overtakes the other. If the economic conditions are favorable this is more likely to happen. If they are not then China's back to burning coal and passing the cost off to future generations as this is a proven working economic strategy for them.
    - lostmsu 2y ago
      I am still clearly missing something as 2030 is only in 5 years.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Related: China installing the wind / solar equivalent of 5 nuclear power stations a week https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 China Building Twice as Much Wind and Solar as Rest of World Combined https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40937714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40937714 China's clean energy pushes coal to record-low 53% share of power in May 2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688

34 points by Arnt 2y ago

strgtwhtmle 2y ago

[flagged]

drekk 2y ago
I don't see what this comment adds to the discussion. If you disagree with the numbers, what source would you use instead? China is building more renewable energy than the rest of the world combined, and it's verifiable by satellite imagery.
- Borg3 2y ago
  China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined, so not really a difference. The question is, do we have any breakthru in energy storage technology there?
  - janalsncm 2y ago
    That’s because decades of neoliberal economics have moved a huge amount of manufacturing to China. The U.S. used to be very dirty in manufacturing towns, but we moved factories to China which has the double benefit of cleaning up our environment and allowing us to blame them!
  - aaronblohowiak 2y ago
    They are leaders in (very long) HVDC and UHVDC which helps bring energy from west to east, an alternative to building lots of time-shifting capacity.
  - tziki 2y ago
    >China is using more energy and resources that rest of the world combined This isn't obviously true even with a cursory glance at the statistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electricity_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...). This isn't the forum to fire off false one-liners.
    - kkfx 2y ago
      Not GP but... I have some doubt on Wikipedia data: I'm from Italy, living in France, and well... Italy is the ONLY (AFAIK) country in the world with a mean domestic electricity contract limited at 3kW, here it's common 36kW (12 per phase) just as a small comparison, so I highly doubt a mean Italian can consume 5MWh/year... Of course data per-se are the same Terna (the grid operator) cite, but I think they have computed something weird mixing industry and residential, because: - in Italy only very few have electricity to heat - A/C is still not that common - BEVs are still not common at all While in France electrical heating is definitively common, albeit not the sole source of heat for most. Essentially: I think such data need much more proof on how they are collected before being trusted.
      - Arnt 2y ago
        I think the factor you're overlooking may be the use by industry.
      - coumbaya 2y ago
        36kW is far from common in france. Heck, event 3-phase is not that common. I've never known anyone with 36kW except farmers. According to ADEME, 6kW is the most common with 70% of (I think) non-commercial subscriptions.
        kkfx 2y ago
        I'm in Alpes de Haute Provence, essentially al homes here are three-phase 36kVA to be precise witch is a little less than 36kW indeed. New homes tend to be 12kW monophase if there is no pool or EVs. Only apartments are 6-9kW. 6kW is the minimum you can get, the cheapest offer, but it's mostly a city thing. Not so small apartments are 9, old homes with new contracts vary from 9-12 mono or 36 threephase but while I have no general statistics that's still pretty common in the "countryside".

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Retric 2y ago

> China, the most populous nation in the world India is likely the most populous nation though there’s some uncertainty. China reached zero population growth first so it’s just a question of timing at this point. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/ https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by...

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sva_ 2y ago

This page does something horrible with the back button

akira2501 2y ago

The report itself is a little more down to earth: "Based on current progress, CEF believes it is entirely feasible for China to significantly slow the expansion of its thermal energy infrastructure and halt the construction of new coal power plants before 2030." Now you just have to hope their GDP remains stable and that the government actually can keep interest rates artificially low for the next 15 straight years.

lostmsu 2y ago
Why 15 straight years?
- akira2501 2y ago
  There are two curves. The hope is one overtakes the other. If the economic conditions are favorable this is more likely to happen. If they are not then China's back to burning coal and passing the cost off to future generations as this is a proven working economic strategy for them.
  - lostmsu 2y ago
    I am still clearly missing something as 2030 is only in 5 years.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Related: China installing the wind / solar equivalent of 5 nuclear power stations a week https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40982276 China Building Twice as Much Wind and Solar as Rest of World Combined https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40937714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40937714 China's clean energy pushes coal to record-low 53% share of power in May 2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40935688