5 ms·

This is about more than pandemics, it is about indoor air quality in crowded spaces: “Our system also solves the long-standing problem of CO2 in classrooms,

by nequo 2y ago

This is about more than pandemics, it is about indoor air quality in crowded spaces: “Our system also solves the long-standing problem of CO2 in classrooms, because it not only transports aerosols outside. It also cuts CO2 accumulation, helping students to concentrate better on their lessons.”

constantcrying 2y ago
Oh, so Europeans have finally invented air conditioning? Of course when I was in school we opened the windows to solve this massive issue, but times change I guess. Hopefully they also have an app, for the kids.
- pixelfarmer 2y ago
  This whole system was aimed at minimizing the infection rates between students which you won't solve by just opening the windows. Imagine you have some smoker indoors: How do you transport off that cancer inducing poisonous cloud without distributing it in the whole place? Plus in Germany there are quite a few schools located directly at heavily used streets, so just opening windows will not exactly give you really fresh air (I mean, it will lower the CO2, but otherwise its going from one bad state into another), plus it increases the noise levels considerably. And yes, ACs are still uncommon in Germany. In return, most buildings, including suburb style homes, are not just made from cardboard. This means the buildings have a lot of thermal inertia which can be used to manage heat during hotter phases.
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place where you're not supposed to drink the tap water because it can bring a lot of disease. I think we as humans realized that water carried a lot of disease and in many places started treating water much better to protect our health. To me it seems very logical that we should also treat the air to protect our health from diseases carried in the air.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place where you're not supposed to drink the tap water because it can bring a lot of disease. Can't say I have ever done that. >To me it seems very logical that we should also treat the air to protect our health from diseases carried in the air. There is an absolutely great feature of air, which makes it totally distinct from water. If you open the window inside and outside air will mix. I know this is kind of miraculous and might just be a very big deal, but I think it could allow us to replace the stale air in the inside with fresh air from the outside.
    - jimkleiber 2y ago
      Fair point on that its vastness allows quick recycling. They do this in Germany a lot, where even in deep winter they'll open windows to recycle the air. I think there are a few challenges to this: 1) It's mostly manual, compared to an automatic ventilation system. Perhaps if it were more automated, I'd agree with you. 2) If it's very hot or cold or humid outside, I think doing this can impact indoor conditions and I'm not sure how much that energy cost compares to other forms of ventilation. 3) Not every part of an indoor space is very close to a window. Large indoor spaces, underground indoor spaces, small ebclosed areas such as bathrooms in the middle of homes, etc., may make it hard to just open a window and flush out the "bad" air.
- adolph 2y ago
  It would be an interesting experiment to inject additional oxygen into school air supplies. On the other hand, following the principle of “train high, play low” it might be better to educate in lower oxygen and then add oxygen to workplaces.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    Maybe, of course putting people permanently on oxygen to improve performance is not a viable alternative.
- nequo 2y ago
  Your dismissive response is uncalled for. Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air, and opening the windows is not always feasible. For example, if the outside air is hot or humid. Ventilation has actual use cases.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air Anything which circulates the air will remove it. >and opening the windows is not always feasible. For example, if the outside air is hot or humid. I can tell you with 100% certainty that hot or humid air does not prevent you from opening a window. I myself have done this multiple times.
    - nequo 2y ago
      Beyond a certain point, humid air causes mold and hot air makes it hard to get any work done. This is not some esoteric idea. The northern hemisphere has just gone through a two week heat wave. If your bio is up to date, I wish you the best in whatever your life situation.
      - constantcrying 2y ago
        >If your bio is up to date, I wish you the best in whatever your life situation. Thankfully it isn't. And I escaped from writing software.
    - adolph 2y ago
      >>Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air > Anything which circulates the air will remove [CO2] Circulation does not remove CO2, only displace it from one place to another. To remove it, you need a scrubber [0]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber

by nequo 2y ago

constantcrying 2y ago

Oh, so Europeans have finally invented air conditioning? Of course when I was in school we opened the windows to solve this massive issue, but times change I guess. Hopefully they also have an app, for the kids.

pixelfarmer 2y ago
This whole system was aimed at minimizing the infection rates between students which you won't solve by just opening the windows. Imagine you have some smoker indoors: How do you transport off that cancer inducing poisonous cloud without distributing it in the whole place? Plus in Germany there are quite a few schools located directly at heavily used streets, so just opening windows will not exactly give you really fresh air (I mean, it will lower the CO2, but otherwise its going from one bad state into another), plus it increases the noise levels considerably. And yes, ACs are still uncommon in Germany. In return, most buildings, including suburb style homes, are not just made from cardboard. This means the buildings have a lot of thermal inertia which can be used to manage heat during hotter phases.
jimkleiber 2y ago
I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place where you're not supposed to drink the tap water because it can bring a lot of disease. I think we as humans realized that water carried a lot of disease and in many places started treating water much better to protect our health. To me it seems very logical that we should also treat the air to protect our health from diseases carried in the air.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place where you're not supposed to drink the tap water because it can bring a lot of disease. Can't say I have ever done that. >To me it seems very logical that we should also treat the air to protect our health from diseases carried in the air. There is an absolutely great feature of air, which makes it totally distinct from water. If you open the window inside and outside air will mix. I know this is kind of miraculous and might just be a very big deal, but I think it could allow us to replace the stale air in the inside with fresh air from the outside.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    Fair point on that its vastness allows quick recycling. They do this in Germany a lot, where even in deep winter they'll open windows to recycle the air. I think there are a few challenges to this: 1) It's mostly manual, compared to an automatic ventilation system. Perhaps if it were more automated, I'd agree with you. 2) If it's very hot or cold or humid outside, I think doing this can impact indoor conditions and I'm not sure how much that energy cost compares to other forms of ventilation. 3) Not every part of an indoor space is very close to a window. Large indoor spaces, underground indoor spaces, small ebclosed areas such as bathrooms in the middle of homes, etc., may make it hard to just open a window and flush out the "bad" air.
adolph 2y ago
It would be an interesting experiment to inject additional oxygen into school air supplies. On the other hand, following the principle of “train high, play low” it might be better to educate in lower oxygen and then add oxygen to workplaces.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  Maybe, of course putting people permanently on oxygen to improve performance is not a viable alternative.
nequo 2y ago
Your dismissive response is uncalled for. Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air, and opening the windows is not always feasible. For example, if the outside air is hot or humid. Ventilation has actual use cases.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air Anything which circulates the air will remove it. >and opening the windows is not always feasible. For example, if the outside air is hot or humid. I can tell you with 100% certainty that hot or humid air does not prevent you from opening a window. I myself have done this multiple times.
  - nequo 2y ago
    Beyond a certain point, humid air causes mold and hot air makes it hard to get any work done. This is not some esoteric idea. The northern hemisphere has just gone through a two week heat wave. If your bio is up to date, I wish you the best in whatever your life situation.
    - constantcrying 2y ago
      >If your bio is up to date, I wish you the best in whatever your life situation. Thankfully it isn't. And I escaped from writing software.
  - adolph 2y ago
    >>Air conditioning does not dispose of CO2 in the air > Anything which circulates the air will remove [CO2] Circulation does not remove CO2, only displace it from one place to another. To remove it, you need a scrubber [0]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber