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They are saying that if the many ways that socialist countries have failed, there is always a hundred different excuses for why that specific example of failure

by stale2002 2y ago

They are saying that if the many ways that socialist countries have failed, there is always a hundred different excuses for why that specific example of failure doesn't "count". If your system is incapable of dealing with any sort of adversity, then that is failure of the system. All countries around the world have problems. And yet, most countries are able to deal with them. Unlikely, apparently, every major socialist country.

grugagag 2y ago
Most countries have an incredible amount of debt and have nothing to show for it. Moreover, the borrowed money accumulated in high proportion only in a handful of pockets, leaving behind a flimsy corrupted society.
cardanome 2y ago
What capitalist country would be able to deal with this level of sanctions that Cuba experiences? People hoped that even such a huge capitalist country like Russia would fall after sanctions. Granted, did not work out because Russia found alternative allies in China and Iran but the idea that capitalist countries can just eat up sanctions like nothing is insane. Otherwise sanctions wouldn't be a political tool to begin with. Lots of capitalist African countries have people just starving on mass and that is despite having free access to markets and despite western countries not only not sabotaging them but on the contrary providing development aid. But you will tell me how that is "not real capitalism" and how they are doing it wrong. Real capitalism is just the few rich Western Nations, we don't talk about the losers. Communist revolutions tend to happen in the poorest countries on earth and they face adversity on every step of the way. That they even manage to survive shows how resilient socialism is.
- stale2002 2y ago
  You didn't respond to anything that I said. What I said is that there is always an excuse for every single failed socialist country and that this is indicative of a problem with that system. It is every last one of them. There are zero real successes. > But you will tell me how that is "not real capitalism" At no point did I claim that capitalism always suceeds. I merely claim that some successes do exist. The same is not true for socialism. There are no successes anywhere, and there is always 100 excuses for why those failures don't count.
  - cardanome 2y ago
    There have been insanely huge successes in socialist countries. The Soviet Union started from one of the least developed places on earth torn by WW1 and a bloody civil war and foreign intervention and became a global super power that would sent the first man into space. As for Cuba, I will use the Western source someone else quoted here: > The largest island in the Caribbean, Cuba is one of the most successful in achieving the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). Food-based social safety nets include a monthly food basket for the entire population, school feeding programs, and mother-and-child health care programs. Generally socialism has been quite successfully globally at providing high literacy rates and massive increases of life expectancy. Most capitalist countries are utter failure. Even the richest country in the world the US has a huge issue with systemic poverty and a prison system that has one of the highest incarnation rates in the world. So there is the success? Norway living off from oil and gas? [0] https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20imports%2070%20to%2080,slated%20for%20social%20protection%20programs https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20import...
    - stale2002 2y ago
      > There have been insanely huge successes in socialist countries. And yet those aren't the countries that people want to go live in. The evidence speaks for it self. The capitalist countries are the ones with all the wealth, that everyone wants to move to, and the socialist ones are the countries that people want to escape. If you will notice, we are right now talking on a thread about 10% of the population of cuba, leaving cuba. > The Soviet Union The thing that doesn't exist anymore? Some success that was. > Most capitalist countries are utter failure And yet, when a capitalist country fails, where do the people in that country want to leave to? Oh, thats right. They want to go to other capitalist countries. > the US has a huge issue And yet, it one of the most desirable places in the world to live in, empirically proven by immigration rates. > Generally socialism has been quite successfully And yet the people actually living there still flee. No matter what metric you give, apparently the people living there don't care, because they still want to leave those countries and to move to capitalist countries.
      - 2y ago
brookst 2y ago
I have zero affection for the Castro regime, but it’s disingenous to characterize a multi-decade embargo by the closest trading partner, which is also a superpower, as “any kind of adversity” as if it were merely a bad harvest.

grugagag 2y ago

Most countries have an incredible amount of debt and have nothing to show for it. Moreover, the borrowed money accumulated in high proportion only in a handful of pockets, leaving behind a flimsy corrupted society.

cardanome 2y ago

What capitalist country would be able to deal with this level of sanctions that Cuba experiences? People hoped that even such a huge capitalist country like Russia would fall after sanctions. Granted, did not work out because Russia found alternative allies in China and Iran but the idea that capitalist countries can just eat up sanctions like nothing is insane. Otherwise sanctions wouldn't be a political tool to begin with. Lots of capitalist African countries have people just starving on mass and that is despite having free access to markets and despite western countries not only not sabotaging them but on the contrary providing development aid. But you will tell me how that is "not real capitalism" and how they are doing it wrong. Real capitalism is just the few rich Western Nations, we don't talk about the losers. Communist revolutions tend to happen in the poorest countries on earth and they face adversity on every step of the way. That they even manage to survive shows how resilient socialism is.

stale2002 2y ago
You didn't respond to anything that I said. What I said is that there is always an excuse for every single failed socialist country and that this is indicative of a problem with that system. It is every last one of them. There are zero real successes. > But you will tell me how that is "not real capitalism" At no point did I claim that capitalism always suceeds. I merely claim that some successes do exist. The same is not true for socialism. There are no successes anywhere, and there is always 100 excuses for why those failures don't count.
- cardanome 2y ago
  There have been insanely huge successes in socialist countries. The Soviet Union started from one of the least developed places on earth torn by WW1 and a bloody civil war and foreign intervention and became a global super power that would sent the first man into space. As for Cuba, I will use the Western source someone else quoted here: > The largest island in the Caribbean, Cuba is one of the most successful in achieving the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). Food-based social safety nets include a monthly food basket for the entire population, school feeding programs, and mother-and-child health care programs. Generally socialism has been quite successfully globally at providing high literacy rates and massive increases of life expectancy. Most capitalist countries are utter failure. Even the richest country in the world the US has a huge issue with systemic poverty and a prison system that has one of the highest incarnation rates in the world. So there is the success? Norway living off from oil and gas? [0] https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20imports%2070%20to%2080,slated%20for%20social%20protection%20programs https://www.wfpusa.org/countries/cuba/#:~:text=Cuba%20import...
  - stale2002 2y ago
    > There have been insanely huge successes in socialist countries. And yet those aren't the countries that people want to go live in. The evidence speaks for it self. The capitalist countries are the ones with all the wealth, that everyone wants to move to, and the socialist ones are the countries that people want to escape. If you will notice, we are right now talking on a thread about 10% of the population of cuba, leaving cuba. > The Soviet Union The thing that doesn't exist anymore? Some success that was. > Most capitalist countries are utter failure And yet, when a capitalist country fails, where do the people in that country want to leave to? Oh, thats right. They want to go to other capitalist countries. > the US has a huge issue And yet, it one of the most desirable places in the world to live in, empirically proven by immigration rates. > Generally socialism has been quite successfully And yet the people actually living there still flee. No matter what metric you give, apparently the people living there don't care, because they still want to leave those countries and to move to capitalist countries.
    - 2y ago

brookst 2y ago

I have zero affection for the Castro regime, but it’s disingenous to characterize a multi-decade embargo by the closest trading partner, which is also a superpower, as “any kind of adversity” as if it were merely a bad harvest.