5 ms·

When eyesight fades and climbing provides comfort

lll-o-lll 2y ago
Gah! It ends just as it’s getting good! I want to read more about what it’s like to be a vision impaired climber!
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  Tangent: my friend Chris Smith (who's legally blind) is nearing the end of a 2,700 mile solo unsupported mountain bike race from west of Calgary all the way down the Rockies to the Mexican border. His almost unprecedented efforts are in support of Foundation Fighting Blindness. https://blindguybiking.org/ https://blindguybiking.org/
  - pxc 2y ago
    I'm not a huge fan of the FFB but as someone with a degenerative inherited retinal disease, your friend makes me feel more optimistic about my future. What a badass!
- eru 2y ago
  I'm also a vision impaired climber. But in a much more boring way: I'm short sighted, but glasses that fix well enough; and I'm colour-blind, so following the colour-coded routes can be a bit confusing and frustrating, especially for bouldering, because most climbing places I've been to overlap the bouldering routes more than the roped routes.
  - nocoder 2y ago
    I can relate to this. I am also partially color blind and when bouldering without glasses, I so often mess up the foot holds. My partner often thinks I am cheating until I tell her that I couldn't make out the color.
    - eru 2y ago
      Interesting that glasses seem to help for you differentiating colours? I guess without glasses everything is a bit worse in general, but they don't really help me see colours better. (But if I got the holds right for my hands, my memory is generally good enough to avoid 'cheating' with the feet not a problem.) I keep meaning to try giving my climbing partner a later pointer, so they can point out the next coloured hold more easily than with vague descriptions.
      - LoganDark 2y ago
        There are glasses that, AFAIK, shift the wavelength of incoming light in some certain way such that a colorblind wearer can differentiate real-world colors that they'd normally have trouble telling apart. It doesn't magically allow colors to show up that they're physically incapable of perceiving, but AIUI it shifts real-world colors that they'd have difficulty telling apart into other colors that they can tell apart, if that makes any sense.
        eru 2y ago
        I'm not sure about shifting wavelengths (that seems way too complicated), but you could just block all out the red light on the right eye and all the green light on the left eye, and that would do the trick for someone who's red/green blind.
        LoganDark 2y ago
        Maybe, though that assumes they have two fully functioning eyes. I'm not colorblind, but my two eyes can't work together because they don't converge. I wouldn't be able to rely on building a complete image from two incomplete signals; I need a complete image in my left eye in order to see.
        eru 2y ago
        Yes, you'd need something different. Instead of putting these two filters on different eyes, you could put them one after another in time, I guess. Or you could put a green-blocking filter on the left side of your view (on both eyes) and a red-blocking filter on the right side of your view (on both eyes), and you would move your head around a bit to figure out green from red. Or you could have a checker-port pattern with the two filters or so.
  - kerkeslager 2y ago
    It used to be that most gyms set with tape on each hold to mark the route--this allowed them to reuse the same hold on different routes and to use their entire inventory of holds in setting a route, since holds didn't have to be the same color. It also let them solve the colorblindness problem by using patterned tape (i.e. stripes or checkers). Nowadays most gyms have massive hold inventory and just set routes using holds of the same color with tape only on start and finish holds. It's easier for routesetters, who don't have to tape as often, but I think a lot is lost this way.
    - Fricken 2y ago
      You're under no obligation to climb the pre-set routes. You can make up problems using whatever holds are on the wall.
      - kerkeslager 2y ago
        Even moderately competent routesetters will set better routes than are achievable this way. Perhaps if the setting is extremely dense, you'll have enough hold options to come up with some decent routes, but that's work--work you're already paying for setters to do.
- dendrite9 2y ago
  I found this podcast interview to be pretty interesting when I listened to it a few years ago. You might find it intresting as well: In this episode Hazel speaks with paraclimber Anna Foo and psychologist Doreen Hoerold who is Anna's friend and sight-guide. We talk about climbing blind, living blind, the relationship between climber and sight-guide... https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anna-foo-climbing-blind/id1493298222?i=1000508369557 https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anna-foo-climbing-blin... There also was this New Yorker article about a climber who uses a camera and an array of electrodes on his tongue to climb. That was in 2017, I wonder if the technology has changed much? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/seeing-with-your-tongue https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/seeing-with-yo...
- lll-o-lll 2y ago
  Found this additional video about the climber in the article, for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpxbiWb47A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpxbiWb47A
glasss 2y ago
Related, the Adaptive Climbing Group does great work: https://www.adaptiveclimbinggroup.org/ https://www.adaptiveclimbinggroup.org/ Every Wednesday at my local gym I have the pleasure of seeing people who normally use a cane or wheelchair to get into the building climb better than me.
- urxvtcd 2y ago
  How does that work? Do they climb on routes specifically prepared for them? I'm a (bad) climber and it's a pretty intense whole-body workout.
  - smolder 2y ago
    They can't do all the same climbing routes, but keep in mind that having your strength concentrated in 2 or 3 limbs instead of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you have a worse power-to-weight ratio. An athletic wheelchair user will have incredibly strong arms IME.
  - glasss 2y ago
    Yes, there some specific routes set in the gym intended for the ACG group where legs / feet aren't necessary. They'll also set similar routes nearby each other, and another volunteer from the group will climb alongside and help the other climber as needed. But a lot of routes are accidentally set in a way that works for wheelchair users as well. Especially if they are allowed to cheat a little bit and grab a nearby hold from another route when needed. Related to the article, people with impaired vision may have a volunteer use that person's cane to point out where the next hold is, or they just need to be led to the wall to start and they can handle it from there. For people with a bit more mobility issues they also have an ascender seat / chair (not sure what the proper name is). You sit down, get strapped in, and pull a handle down from overhead repeatedly to "climb". It's not climbing a wall with holds, but you get the same workout and still end up 60 ft in the air.
parkersweb 2y ago
This documentary was on BBC4 a few years back about Jesse Dufton climbing the Old Man of Hoy as a blind climber: https://youtu.be/WcB39nBSv3Y?si=G0V4qe2eZikEm6i1 https://youtu.be/WcB39nBSv3Y?si=G0V4qe2eZikEm6i1 Really inspiring watch if you can find the whole film somewhere.
- defrost 2y ago
  MVGROUP - BBC Climbing Blind 1080p HDTV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVGroup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVGroup https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Climbing_Blind https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Climbing_Blind (if 'dead' post a reseed request in approp. forum thread)
- aheckler 2y ago
  The whole thing is on YouTube, for free but with ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6fqVpRsBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6fqVpRsBM (At least, for me here in the U.S.)
pricechild 2y ago
I saw the film "Soundscape" at the Banff mountain film festival and thought it was great. Looks like it's won awards and been shown at a lot of festivals. Definitely recommend it! The description: > Soundscape shares the sightless experience of climbing a mountain via echo location, touch and imagination. It features Erik Weihenmayer, a fully blind adventure athlete and author, as he ascends a massive rock face deep in California’s Sierra Nevada mountains. Using expert camera work and emotive, novel animation to bring to life a concept by adaptive climbing pioneer Timmy O’Neill, the film is a surprising and soulful adventure.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

Gah! It ends just as it’s getting good! I want to read more about what it’s like to be a vision impaired climber!

chrisweekly 2y ago
Tangent: my friend Chris Smith (who's legally blind) is nearing the end of a 2,700 mile solo unsupported mountain bike race from west of Calgary all the way down the Rockies to the Mexican border. His almost unprecedented efforts are in support of Foundation Fighting Blindness. https://blindguybiking.org/ https://blindguybiking.org/
- pxc 2y ago
  I'm not a huge fan of the FFB but as someone with a degenerative inherited retinal disease, your friend makes me feel more optimistic about my future. What a badass!
eru 2y ago
I'm also a vision impaired climber. But in a much more boring way: I'm short sighted, but glasses that fix well enough; and I'm colour-blind, so following the colour-coded routes can be a bit confusing and frustrating, especially for bouldering, because most climbing places I've been to overlap the bouldering routes more than the roped routes.
- nocoder 2y ago
  I can relate to this. I am also partially color blind and when bouldering without glasses, I so often mess up the foot holds. My partner often thinks I am cheating until I tell her that I couldn't make out the color.
  - eru 2y ago
    Interesting that glasses seem to help for you differentiating colours? I guess without glasses everything is a bit worse in general, but they don't really help me see colours better. (But if I got the holds right for my hands, my memory is generally good enough to avoid 'cheating' with the feet not a problem.) I keep meaning to try giving my climbing partner a later pointer, so they can point out the next coloured hold more easily than with vague descriptions.
    - LoganDark 2y ago
      There are glasses that, AFAIK, shift the wavelength of incoming light in some certain way such that a colorblind wearer can differentiate real-world colors that they'd normally have trouble telling apart. It doesn't magically allow colors to show up that they're physically incapable of perceiving, but AIUI it shifts real-world colors that they'd have difficulty telling apart into other colors that they can tell apart, if that makes any sense.
      - eru 2y ago
        I'm not sure about shifting wavelengths (that seems way too complicated), but you could just block all out the red light on the right eye and all the green light on the left eye, and that would do the trick for someone who's red/green blind.
        LoganDark 2y ago
        Maybe, though that assumes they have two fully functioning eyes. I'm not colorblind, but my two eyes can't work together because they don't converge. I wouldn't be able to rely on building a complete image from two incomplete signals; I need a complete image in my left eye in order to see.
        eru 2y ago
        Yes, you'd need something different. Instead of putting these two filters on different eyes, you could put them one after another in time, I guess. Or you could put a green-blocking filter on the left side of your view (on both eyes) and a red-blocking filter on the right side of your view (on both eyes), and you would move your head around a bit to figure out green from red. Or you could have a checker-port pattern with the two filters or so.
- kerkeslager 2y ago
  It used to be that most gyms set with tape on each hold to mark the route--this allowed them to reuse the same hold on different routes and to use their entire inventory of holds in setting a route, since holds didn't have to be the same color. It also let them solve the colorblindness problem by using patterned tape (i.e. stripes or checkers). Nowadays most gyms have massive hold inventory and just set routes using holds of the same color with tape only on start and finish holds. It's easier for routesetters, who don't have to tape as often, but I think a lot is lost this way.
  - Fricken 2y ago
    You're under no obligation to climb the pre-set routes. You can make up problems using whatever holds are on the wall.
    - kerkeslager 2y ago
      Even moderately competent routesetters will set better routes than are achievable this way. Perhaps if the setting is extremely dense, you'll have enough hold options to come up with some decent routes, but that's work--work you're already paying for setters to do.
dendrite9 2y ago
I found this podcast interview to be pretty interesting when I listened to it a few years ago. You might find it intresting as well: In this episode Hazel speaks with paraclimber Anna Foo and psychologist Doreen Hoerold who is Anna's friend and sight-guide. We talk about climbing blind, living blind, the relationship between climber and sight-guide... https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anna-foo-climbing-blind/id1493298222?i=1000508369557 https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/anna-foo-climbing-blin... There also was this New Yorker article about a climber who uses a camera and an array of electrodes on his tongue to climb. That was in 2017, I wonder if the technology has changed much? https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/seeing-with-your-tongue https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/15/seeing-with-yo...
lll-o-lll 2y ago
Found this additional video about the climber in the article, for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpxbiWb47A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIpxbiWb47A

Related, the Adaptive Climbing Group does great work: https://www.adaptiveclimbinggroup.org/ https://www.adaptiveclimbinggroup.org/ Every Wednesday at my local gym I have the pleasure of seeing people who normally use a cane or wheelchair to get into the building climb better than me.

urxvtcd 2y ago
How does that work? Do they climb on routes specifically prepared for them? I'm a (bad) climber and it's a pretty intense whole-body workout.
- smolder 2y ago
  They can't do all the same climbing routes, but keep in mind that having your strength concentrated in 2 or 3 limbs instead of 4 doesn't necessarily mean you have a worse power-to-weight ratio. An athletic wheelchair user will have incredibly strong arms IME.
- glasss 2y ago
  Yes, there some specific routes set in the gym intended for the ACG group where legs / feet aren't necessary. They'll also set similar routes nearby each other, and another volunteer from the group will climb alongside and help the other climber as needed. But a lot of routes are accidentally set in a way that works for wheelchair users as well. Especially if they are allowed to cheat a little bit and grab a nearby hold from another route when needed. Related to the article, people with impaired vision may have a volunteer use that person's cane to point out where the next hold is, or they just need to be led to the wall to start and they can handle it from there. For people with a bit more mobility issues they also have an ascender seat / chair (not sure what the proper name is). You sit down, get strapped in, and pull a handle down from overhead repeatedly to "climb". It's not climbing a wall with holds, but you get the same workout and still end up 60 ft in the air.

parkersweb 2y ago

This documentary was on BBC4 a few years back about Jesse Dufton climbing the Old Man of Hoy as a blind climber: https://youtu.be/WcB39nBSv3Y?si=G0V4qe2eZikEm6i1 https://youtu.be/WcB39nBSv3Y?si=G0V4qe2eZikEm6i1 Really inspiring watch if you can find the whole film somewhere.

defrost 2y ago
MVGROUP - BBC Climbing Blind 1080p HDTV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVGroup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MVGroup https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Climbing_Blind https://docuwiki.net/index.php?title=Climbing_Blind (if 'dead' post a reseed request in approp. forum thread)
aheckler 2y ago
The whole thing is on YouTube, for free but with ads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6fqVpRsBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD6fqVpRsBM (At least, for me here in the U.S.)

pricechild 2y ago

I saw the film "Soundscape" at the Banff mountain film festival and thought it was great. Looks like it's won awards and been shown at a lot of festivals. Definitely recommend it! The description: > Soundscape shares the sightless experience of climbing a mountain via echo location, touch and imagination. It features Erik Weihenmayer, a fully blind adventure athlete and author, as he ascends a massive rock face deep in California’s Sierra Nevada mountains. Using expert camera work and emotive, novel animation to bring to life a concept by adaptive climbing pioneer Timmy O’Neill, the film is a surprising and soulful adventure.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]