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> Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon or the consequence of having a clueless communist regime, since

> Which is the consequence of being sanctioned into oblivion for decades by the global hegemon or the consequence of having a clueless communist regime, since most communist countries do very poorly economically. Sanctions rarely give the whole picture.

alsetmusic 2y ago
> since most communist countries do very poorly economically. It’s almost as though being brutally sanctioned by a superpower makes it nearly impossible to succeed. Do you not see the irony of your statement?
- ekianjo 2y ago
  You don't seem to be aware that Cuba actually trades with many countries, including the US, and this for a long time. https://www.britannica.com/place/Cuba/Trade https://www.britannica.com/place/Cuba/Trade
- kgwgk 2y ago
  Was the USSR brutally sanctioned by a superpower? It was a superpower itself - it was supposed to be even more of a superpower! "In the 1961 edition of his famous textbook of economic principles, Paul Samuelson wrote that GNP in the Soviet Union was about half that in the United States but the Soviet Union was growing faster. As a result, one could comfortably forecast that Soviet GNP would exceed that of the United States by as early as 1984 or perhaps by as late as 1997 and in any event Soviet GNP would greatly catch-up to U.S. GNP." https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/soviet-growth-american-textbooks.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/so...
cced 2y ago
Opinions like these are the reason why this “communism v capitalism” discussion never evolves beyond “them bad us good”. China is often the target of anti communist propaganda so how do you square that hole? 1# economy when looking at GDP(PPP) so your “analysis” falls short. Communist “regimes” often have to deal with outside interference from the “superior” capitalist system. OP’s point is extremely valid: Cuba does not have the right to self determination as other countries impose themselves on them and prevent their economic growth. The Cuba case is really quite interesting when you compare it to more recent cases of indivisibility of security. We all have short memories I guess, super heros and cartoon villains. Never change hn.
- luckylion 2y ago
  > China is often the target of anti communist propaganda so how do you square that hole? 1# economy when looking at GDP(PPP) so your “analysis” falls short. And that primarily came to be when they cut back on the centrally planned economy and allowed more free markets. Whether they will allow that to continue is to be seen. > Communist “regimes” often have to deal with outside interference from the “superior” capitalist system. No, they generally don't, but they use that as propaganda. Eastern Germany built their "anti-fascist barricade" in Berlin officially to keep the evil Western infiltrators out, but their guns were turned to the east, and they murdered people for trying to escape from communism. The Soviet Union as a whole often attributed its failures to the meddling of the Imperialistic West, because admitting that you messed up is dangerous. Communists always find a reason for their failure, and it's never them. That's really nothing new.
  - underlipton 2y ago
    >And that primarily came to be when they courted Western investment and resource-sharing with promises of access to their massive population, and then proceeded to steal and copy everything not nailed down, heavily restrict foreign firms' ability both to access their consumer markets and to repatriate capital, employed sweatshop labor, all while supporting quasi-state quasi-monopolies that literally could not fail in any meaningful way. Don't take this as unqualified criticism; it worked, and compensated for some of the worst injuries and excesses of the West's relations with the Chinese state. But the point is that it wasn't adherence to tenets of "fair-market capitalism" so much as abuse of labor and investor trust that gave them an edge. (And, to be fair, a tamer version of this strategy featured in America's own rise to economic powerhouse; Liu and Andrew, Ma and Ma Bell.) Also, as an anecdote, the superfest story says hi. The Reds invented a superior glass manufacturing process that was ignored by the West until they could control and profit off it without it benefiting the USSR. You're familiar with it because it's (probably) the screen you're reading this on.

alsetmusic 2y ago

> since most communist countries do very poorly economically. It’s almost as though being brutally sanctioned by a superpower makes it nearly impossible to succeed. Do you not see the irony of your statement?

ekianjo 2y ago
You don't seem to be aware that Cuba actually trades with many countries, including the US, and this for a long time. https://www.britannica.com/place/Cuba/Trade https://www.britannica.com/place/Cuba/Trade
kgwgk 2y ago
Was the USSR brutally sanctioned by a superpower? It was a superpower itself - it was supposed to be even more of a superpower! "In the 1961 edition of his famous textbook of economic principles, Paul Samuelson wrote that GNP in the Soviet Union was about half that in the United States but the Soviet Union was growing faster. As a result, one could comfortably forecast that Soviet GNP would exceed that of the United States by as early as 1984 or perhaps by as late as 1997 and in any event Soviet GNP would greatly catch-up to U.S. GNP." https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/soviet-growth-american-textbooks.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2010/01/so...

cced 2y ago

Opinions like these are the reason why this “communism v capitalism” discussion never evolves beyond “them bad us good”. China is often the target of anti communist propaganda so how do you square that hole? 1# economy when looking at GDP(PPP) so your “analysis” falls short. Communist “regimes” often have to deal with outside interference from the “superior” capitalist system. OP’s point is extremely valid: Cuba does not have the right to self determination as other countries impose themselves on them and prevent their economic growth. The Cuba case is really quite interesting when you compare it to more recent cases of indivisibility of security. We all have short memories I guess, super heros and cartoon villains. Never change hn.

luckylion 2y ago
> China is often the target of anti communist propaganda so how do you square that hole? 1# economy when looking at GDP(PPP) so your “analysis” falls short. And that primarily came to be when they cut back on the centrally planned economy and allowed more free markets. Whether they will allow that to continue is to be seen. > Communist “regimes” often have to deal with outside interference from the “superior” capitalist system. No, they generally don't, but they use that as propaganda. Eastern Germany built their "anti-fascist barricade" in Berlin officially to keep the evil Western infiltrators out, but their guns were turned to the east, and they murdered people for trying to escape from communism. The Soviet Union as a whole often attributed its failures to the meddling of the Imperialistic West, because admitting that you messed up is dangerous. Communists always find a reason for their failure, and it's never them. That's really nothing new.
- underlipton 2y ago
  >And that primarily came to be when they courted Western investment and resource-sharing with promises of access to their massive population, and then proceeded to steal and copy everything not nailed down, heavily restrict foreign firms' ability both to access their consumer markets and to repatriate capital, employed sweatshop labor, all while supporting quasi-state quasi-monopolies that literally could not fail in any meaningful way. Don't take this as unqualified criticism; it worked, and compensated for some of the worst injuries and excesses of the West's relations with the Chinese state. But the point is that it wasn't adherence to tenets of "fair-market capitalism" so much as abuse of labor and investor trust that gave them an edge. (And, to be fair, a tamer version of this strategy featured in America's own rise to economic powerhouse; Liu and Andrew, Ma and Ma Bell.) Also, as an anecdote, the superfest story says hi. The Reds invented a superior glass manufacturing process that was ignored by the West until they could control and profit off it without it benefiting the USSR. You're familiar with it because it's (probably) the screen you're reading this on.