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I am a British immigrant in Germany and I can vouch for how impossible it is to integrate into these northern European societies, if the rest are anything like

I am a British immigrant in Germany and I can vouch for how impossible it is to integrate into these northern European societies, if the rest are anything like Germany. I tick all the boxes of what German boomers would want in a "Good Immigrant" (white, educated, from western Europe, speaks German, good job), but it doesn't help. I think overall Germans, deep down, don't really want us here. We are here to pay for the pension bill—that's literally it. But since we are here, they want us to completely assimilate and give up everything about yourself that came from our homelands. There is no respect nor appreciation for any external culture, so your "differences" have negative value, because you have to Be German. I dated a third generation Turkish German for 2 years whilst I lived here and she faced fairly casual racism from white Germans with a regularity that would be unthinkable in the UK. She was often getting complimented on how good her German (it's her mother tongue) was or asked about what country she came from (she was born and raised in Germany). It's a racist country. Don't believe the PR about how liberal Germany is—it's liberal if you're white and German. And I say all this as a white Western European. It's going to be so much harder for the average Syrian or Afghan.

mharig 2y ago
Continental Europeans have very bad experiences with British tourists. I really like Brits, but just if they stay on their Islands. And I am quite sure I get support from around a 100 Million dead guys from India. Turks are a very big community (I guess more than 20 Million counting all generations) in Germany with a lot of not well adapted folk. In my 2500 souls german home village live people from more than 40 nations. I never heard negative comments about them from one of the natives. But the shithole you live in of course may vary.
- twixfel 2y ago
  Aren't you just proving my point, though? Your post is objectively xenophobic. > Continental Europeans have very bad experiences with British tourists Funnily enough I've never been anywhere where our trashy British tourists go (why would I?). So actually I don't know what they're like, but I've heard very bad things. I've also heard even worse things about the Dutch, though. > And I am quite sure I get support from around a 100 Million dead guys Well whoever they are that you're talking about, they are dead, so I am not sure they're in a position to support you at all. Having said that, I wonder what the all the dead Europeans and Jews murdered by Germans would think of Germany. > But the shithole you live in of course may vary I live and work in Hamburg. >Turks are a very big community (I guess more than 20 Million counting all generations) in Germany with a lot of not well adapted folk. Yes, because of how the majority ethnic German population treated them and continues to treat them. It's a very racist country. That's what living and working in Germany and falling in love with a Turkish German taught me. Thank you for the cultural exchange.
  - kgwgk 2y ago
    People will always find reasons to complain: ‘Cliched’: Turkish-Germans react as president brings kebab on Istanbul trip https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/cliched-turkish-germans-react-as-president-brings-kebab-on-istanbul-trip https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/cliched-turkis... (Not trying to make a point, I just found the controversy kind of funny.)
  - mharig 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - wwtrv 2y ago
      > Are you mentally ill? Is that really necessary? Also I'll second it, your comments are objectively xenophobic. > never about Scots, either Considering there are 10x less of them not particularly suprising... > And yes, other monkeys are murderish assholes, too Germans specifically (the British never even came close historically...). Or you won't say it?
      - mharig 2y ago
        [flagged]
        twixfel 2y ago
        I think it's great you're engaging in casual anglophobia and xenophobia, it just perfectly demonstrates how xenophobic Germany is, it's such a nice example. I have a funny story, my grandfather actually was German and fought for the Nazi German Empire in WW2 and moved to the UK afterwards. He used to cry about how much worse the English were and how unfair it all is that the Nazi German Empire (your Nazi ancestors) is vilified compared to the English. Will you bring up the Boer War now? He used to do that too. Anyway it's all very on brand for a German to give off pretty familiar national socialist vibes. Takes me right back to my childhood trying to navigate interactions with that autistic old man :') Funnily enough, they do say that German society is like one where everyone is autistic. It all adds up!
adornKey 2y ago
I - a white German - got verbally attacked in the subway of Berlin by a man because I looked somehow foreign to him... So even being white and German sometimes doesn't help... Being from the wrong side of the village can be bad enough. Integration is hard - I recently went to an intergration event at a local church - almost no Germans there - and also the different foreign communities didn't really interact with each other. E.g. there's severe hatered between the different groups of Turkish people. I think there are a lot of outsiders in German society - ethnic integration is hard. Maybe Special interest groups - like Computer Meetups or Maker-Spaces can help with Integration into a new Clan?!
- twixfel 2y ago
  I really think you're right. Actually I do truly believe everyone suffers under the prevailing German attitude towards social contact and human interaction. It's just worse for immigrants, because we've even more outsiders and often visibly so.
NalNezumi 2y ago
While being an exchange student in Asia I met an Austrian girl studying in Germany. Her best friend was Iranian-German, born and raised in Germany. When they both tried to apply for renting places close to Uni, several times her Iranian-German friend was ignored by the land lords. Even though the Austrian girl had heavy accent and technically being the migrant, her "germanic" name and white face gave her access to the most basic thing:housing; something a German born Iranian (studying engineering, well educated and mannered), will struggle to have. One of the landlord she met, an old lady, even explicitly said she was happy "a German" applied and she felt she would take care of the place better. Similar discrimination exist in Japan, where I lived. All my European expat friends complained about how they struggle getting apartments because landlord silently decline based on their foreigner name. Very few of them even want to BELIEVE the above Austrian girls story. The common reply is always questioning the story. Maybe some other reason, it's an anecdote, how can she be sure. (when the Austrian girl tell her German friends same questioning occur) At the core of it the unfriendliness of northern Europe + Germany is a double punch: you're often silently discriminated, and when you try to voice it, you're often gaslighted. At least in USA or other English speaking places those voices are allowed to be voiced, without condemnation (people will debate it, but we won't even get there for places like Germany or Sweden )
- twixfel 2y ago
  Yeah this is extremely common, surnames are probably the single most important thing in Germany when it comes to finding quality housing. Actually the housing market in Germany is really bad, somehow seemingly even worse than the British one, albeit in different ways. All the Germans I know live really well, because finding somewhere to live is more about connections ("Vitamin B", Genossenschaft, friend/colleague "giving" you their contract/flat) and being German (so you're not filtered based on your surname) than anything else. Of course, if you're an immigrant then you're unlikely to have connections, and it's unlikely your dad signed you up to a Genossenschaft 20 years ago. Some Germans may like to think of Germany as a country of immigrants, but it just isn't, regardless of how many live here.
Entechan 2y ago
I was blamed of being "too white" in the australian outback by british descendants. And quote "should go back to your country" which I would have done anyway.
- twixfel 2y ago
  [flagged]

mharig 2y ago

Continental Europeans have very bad experiences with British tourists. I really like Brits, but just if they stay on their Islands. And I am quite sure I get support from around a 100 Million dead guys from India. Turks are a very big community (I guess more than 20 Million counting all generations) in Germany with a lot of not well adapted folk. In my 2500 souls german home village live people from more than 40 nations. I never heard negative comments about them from one of the natives. But the shithole you live in of course may vary.

twixfel 2y ago
Aren't you just proving my point, though? Your post is objectively xenophobic. > Continental Europeans have very bad experiences with British tourists Funnily enough I've never been anywhere where our trashy British tourists go (why would I?). So actually I don't know what they're like, but I've heard very bad things. I've also heard even worse things about the Dutch, though. > And I am quite sure I get support from around a 100 Million dead guys Well whoever they are that you're talking about, they are dead, so I am not sure they're in a position to support you at all. Having said that, I wonder what the all the dead Europeans and Jews murdered by Germans would think of Germany. > But the shithole you live in of course may vary I live and work in Hamburg. >Turks are a very big community (I guess more than 20 Million counting all generations) in Germany with a lot of not well adapted folk. Yes, because of how the majority ethnic German population treated them and continues to treat them. It's a very racist country. That's what living and working in Germany and falling in love with a Turkish German taught me. Thank you for the cultural exchange.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  People will always find reasons to complain: ‘Cliched’: Turkish-Germans react as president brings kebab on Istanbul trip https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/cliched-turkish-germans-react-as-president-brings-kebab-on-istanbul-trip https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/cliched-turkis... (Not trying to make a point, I just found the controversy kind of funny.)
- mharig 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - wwtrv 2y ago
    > Are you mentally ill? Is that really necessary? Also I'll second it, your comments are objectively xenophobic. > never about Scots, either Considering there are 10x less of them not particularly suprising... > And yes, other monkeys are murderish assholes, too Germans specifically (the British never even came close historically...). Or you won't say it?
    - mharig 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - twixfel 2y ago
        I think it's great you're engaging in casual anglophobia and xenophobia, it just perfectly demonstrates how xenophobic Germany is, it's such a nice example. I have a funny story, my grandfather actually was German and fought for the Nazi German Empire in WW2 and moved to the UK afterwards. He used to cry about how much worse the English were and how unfair it all is that the Nazi German Empire (your Nazi ancestors) is vilified compared to the English. Will you bring up the Boer War now? He used to do that too. Anyway it's all very on brand for a German to give off pretty familiar national socialist vibes. Takes me right back to my childhood trying to navigate interactions with that autistic old man :') Funnily enough, they do say that German society is like one where everyone is autistic. It all adds up!

adornKey 2y ago

I - a white German - got verbally attacked in the subway of Berlin by a man because I looked somehow foreign to him... So even being white and German sometimes doesn't help... Being from the wrong side of the village can be bad enough. Integration is hard - I recently went to an intergration event at a local church - almost no Germans there - and also the different foreign communities didn't really interact with each other. E.g. there's severe hatered between the different groups of Turkish people. I think there are a lot of outsiders in German society - ethnic integration is hard. Maybe Special interest groups - like Computer Meetups or Maker-Spaces can help with Integration into a new Clan?!

twixfel 2y ago
I really think you're right. Actually I do truly believe everyone suffers under the prevailing German attitude towards social contact and human interaction. It's just worse for immigrants, because we've even more outsiders and often visibly so.

NalNezumi 2y ago

While being an exchange student in Asia I met an Austrian girl studying in Germany. Her best friend was Iranian-German, born and raised in Germany. When they both tried to apply for renting places close to Uni, several times her Iranian-German friend was ignored by the land lords. Even though the Austrian girl had heavy accent and technically being the migrant, her "germanic" name and white face gave her access to the most basic thing:housing; something a German born Iranian (studying engineering, well educated and mannered), will struggle to have. One of the landlord she met, an old lady, even explicitly said she was happy "a German" applied and she felt she would take care of the place better. Similar discrimination exist in Japan, where I lived. All my European expat friends complained about how they struggle getting apartments because landlord silently decline based on their foreigner name. Very few of them even want to BELIEVE the above Austrian girls story. The common reply is always questioning the story. Maybe some other reason, it's an anecdote, how can she be sure. (when the Austrian girl tell her German friends same questioning occur) At the core of it the unfriendliness of northern Europe + Germany is a double punch: you're often silently discriminated, and when you try to voice it, you're often gaslighted. At least in USA or other English speaking places those voices are allowed to be voiced, without condemnation (people will debate it, but we won't even get there for places like Germany or Sweden )

twixfel 2y ago
Yeah this is extremely common, surnames are probably the single most important thing in Germany when it comes to finding quality housing. Actually the housing market in Germany is really bad, somehow seemingly even worse than the British one, albeit in different ways. All the Germans I know live really well, because finding somewhere to live is more about connections ("Vitamin B", Genossenschaft, friend/colleague "giving" you their contract/flat) and being German (so you're not filtered based on your surname) than anything else. Of course, if you're an immigrant then you're unlikely to have connections, and it's unlikely your dad signed you up to a Genossenschaft 20 years ago. Some Germans may like to think of Germany as a country of immigrants, but it just isn't, regardless of how many live here.

Entechan 2y ago

I was blamed of being "too white" in the australian outback by british descendants. And quote "should go back to your country" which I would have done anyway.

twixfel 2y ago
[flagged]