3 ms·

> I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform Republicans are anti-illegal immigration, not anti-immigration. Trump's wife is an im

> I support immigration and oppose the Republican anti-immigrant platform Republicans are anti-illegal immigration, not anti-immigration. Trump's wife is an immigrant. > because it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success. It would only be a brain drain if you filter by skills or IQ. But if you just let everyone in, you can make things worse, not better. > I'm not concerned about the crime Of course, and we can see the results.

defrost 2y ago
The FBI data also shows a 59% reduction in the U.S. property crime rate between 1993 and 2022, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-75%), larceny/theft (-54%) and motor vehicle theft (-53%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those captured in the FBI data. Per BJS, the U.S. violent and property crime rates each fell 71% between 1993 and 2022. Of course the real reason for comments such as that above are that: Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when official data shows it is down. In 23 of 27 Gallup surveys conducted since 1993, at least 60% of U.S. adults have said there is more crime nationally than there was the year before, despite the downward trend in crime rates during most of that period. The only real uptick of note in recent years has been the murder rate in the US during the COVID years, staying home and feeling under threat led to an increase in US citizen on citizen crime - not immigration. Of course those with a blinkered news bubble (Fox, et al) tend to believe the hyped up overstaing of every low occurrence incidence and clutch their pearls in response. The data says otherwise. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-...
- jwilber 2y ago
  “The data says otherwise” in aggregate, up to the year 2022. Posting aggregate stats just comes off iso a “gotcha” instead of a real discussion involving thought or context, both of which are needed in any discussion including data. There’s many angles someone could take this. You mentioned Fox News. They certainly don’t drone about crime in Little Rock — they complain about the “anarchist hellscape” of liberal cities (or whatever superlative they want to call it that hour). The worst of which? HN HQ San Francisco! (fwiw I love SF). Unfortunately, in stark contrast to your stats, property crime has certainly gone up in San Francisco since 2012 [1]. SF is also a hot destination of migrant relocation busses [2], so is probably a city Fox mentions when it comes to migrant crime. (Fwiw, Cubans often end up in liberal cities in conservative states, like Miami, Houston, Kentucky, not SF)[3]. Anyways, I have no horse in this race. I’m not really sure what my point is with this tangential response, other than to say your stats require context, and can just as easily factually be opposite to what you wrote, depending on that context. 1 https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/16/property-crime-rates-test-san-franciscans-values https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/16/property-... 2 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/20/us/abbott-texas-migrant-buses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/20/us/abbott-texas-migrant-b... 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/interactive/2024/us-immigration-where-migrants-live/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzIxMjc1MjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzIyNjU3NTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MjEyNzUyMDAsImp0aSI6ImFkNzhhNDY0LWUxNjYtNDlkNC04NjVjLTA5NTlkY2RlOTVkMSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9pbW1pZ3JhdGlvbi9pbnRlcmFjdGl2ZS8yMDI0L3VzLWltbWlncmF0aW9uLXdoZXJlLW1pZ3JhbnRzLWxpdmUvIn0.0aT0gBg3ZJ4oTcmum6wysTL26g2XGY7k9u-nn7He6Ao&itid=gfta https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/interactive/2024/...
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    > fwiw I love SF How long can you leave your car parked outside before someone breaks the windows?
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  You know what helps crime stats? Not prosecuting (some) criminals at all. Just dismiss the charges, and your stats magically get better. Another thing you can do is reclassify felonies as misdemeanors. Reminds you of anything?
- rangestransform 2y ago
  How has property crime trended post pandemic though?

defrost 2y ago

The FBI data also shows a 59% reduction in the U.S. property crime rate between 1993 and 2022, with big declines in the rates of burglary (-75%), larceny/theft (-54%) and motor vehicle theft (-53%). Using the BJS statistics, the declines in the violent and property crime rates are even steeper than those captured in the FBI data. Per BJS, the U.S. violent and property crime rates each fell 71% between 1993 and 2022. Of course the real reason for comments such as that above are that: Americans tend to believe crime is up, even when official data shows it is down. In 23 of 27 Gallup surveys conducted since 1993, at least 60% of U.S. adults have said there is more crime nationally than there was the year before, despite the downward trend in crime rates during most of that period. The only real uptick of note in recent years has been the murder rate in the US during the COVID years, staying home and feeling under threat led to an increase in US citizen on citizen crime - not immigration. Of course those with a blinkered news bubble (Fox, et al) tend to believe the hyped up overstaing of every low occurrence incidence and clutch their pearls in response. The data says otherwise. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-...

jwilber 2y ago
“The data says otherwise” in aggregate, up to the year 2022. Posting aggregate stats just comes off iso a “gotcha” instead of a real discussion involving thought or context, both of which are needed in any discussion including data. There’s many angles someone could take this. You mentioned Fox News. They certainly don’t drone about crime in Little Rock — they complain about the “anarchist hellscape” of liberal cities (or whatever superlative they want to call it that hour). The worst of which? HN HQ San Francisco! (fwiw I love SF). Unfortunately, in stark contrast to your stats, property crime has certainly gone up in San Francisco since 2012 [1]. SF is also a hot destination of migrant relocation busses [2], so is probably a city Fox mentions when it comes to migrant crime. (Fwiw, Cubans often end up in liberal cities in conservative states, like Miami, Houston, Kentucky, not SF)[3]. Anyways, I have no horse in this race. I’m not really sure what my point is with this tangential response, other than to say your stats require context, and can just as easily factually be opposite to what you wrote, depending on that context. 1 https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/16/property-crime-rates-test-san-franciscans-values https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/16/property-... 2 https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/20/us/abbott-texas-migrant-buses.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/20/us/abbott-texas-migrant-b... 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/interactive/2024/us-immigration-where-migrants-live/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNzIxMjc1MjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNzIyNjU3NTk5LCJpYXQiOjE3MjEyNzUyMDAsImp0aSI6ImFkNzhhNDY0LWUxNjYtNDlkNC04NjVjLTA5NTlkY2RlOTVkMSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9pbW1pZ3JhdGlvbi9pbnRlcmFjdGl2ZS8yMDI0L3VzLWltbWlncmF0aW9uLXdoZXJlLW1pZ3JhbnRzLWxpdmUvIn0.0aT0gBg3ZJ4oTcmum6wysTL26g2XGY7k9u-nn7He6Ao&itid=gfta https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/interactive/2024/...
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  > fwiw I love SF How long can you leave your car parked outside before someone breaks the windows?
bufferoverflow 2y ago
You know what helps crime stats? Not prosecuting (some) criminals at all. Just dismiss the charges, and your stats magically get better. Another thing you can do is reclassify felonies as misdemeanors. Reminds you of anything?
rangestransform 2y ago
How has property crime trended post pandemic though?