4 ms·

I support immigration too, as long as it's people we vet. Smart people want to live here, and will jump through hoops to do so. We should make the hoops easier

I support immigration too, as long as it's people we vet. Smart people want to live here, and will jump through hoops to do so. We should make the hoops easier for them, and actually deport people who spit in their faces by waltzing over the border and staying. It's not fair to the hard-working honest people who played by the rules. Also, you should be concerned about the crime. Have you seen what the cartel does in Mexico? It's terrifying, and those (cartel members) are not people we want here.

timschmidt 2y ago
> Have you seen what the cartel does in Mexico? The ones the DEA has partnered with[0], arms[1], and enables through backward drug policy[2]? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusion_with_US_federal_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal 2: https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-drug-policy-rise-mexico-cartels/ https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-...
- rpmisms 2y ago
  What, you assume I think the government is good? The cartel is worse by a fair margin, but we do not have a virtuous government. The difference is that government has a modicum of public responsibility and can't/isn't likely to simply murder most* of us for no good reason.
  - timschmidt 2y ago
    Did you find any assumptions in the references I provided? Since you evoked the cartels as a boogeyman it seems relevant to point out that they're one of our own creation. Changes to US policy no greater or more complex than those proposed for immigration could eliminate the economic conditions which drive their violence.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  Well prescreening immigrants lets us avoid dealing with the consequences of our actions, so why not
  - timschmidt 2y ago
    Poe's law strikes again. I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not. I think the consequences of our actions will find us one way or another regardless of immigration policy. That's not an argument against screening, but for policy reform.
    - rangestransform 2y ago
      The government has a responsibility to minimize the consequences on its own people, everyone else be damned. Of course the US needs screening for immigrants, and I don’t know anyone reasonable who’d argue otherwise. Zero crime among immigrants is unrealistic, but society should make the tradeoff there based on economic and social factors instead of feeling any kind of moral obligation wrt. immigration.
  - rpmisms 2y ago
    If I can avoid dealing with the ruinous consequences of governments that existed before I was born, I absolutely will.
kjkjadksj 2y ago
Cartel members are already here you know. It’s not their mere presence that results in wanton violence and a lack of government authority to deal with it.

timschmidt 2y ago

> Have you seen what the cartel does in Mexico? The ones the DEA has partnered with[0], arms[1], and enables through backward drug policy[2]? 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusion_with_US_federal_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel#Alleged_collusi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal 2: https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-drug-policy-rise-mexico-cartels/ https://insightcrime.org/news/analysis/how-100-years-failed-...

rpmisms 2y ago
What, you assume I think the government is good? The cartel is worse by a fair margin, but we do not have a virtuous government. The difference is that government has a modicum of public responsibility and can't/isn't likely to simply murder most* of us for no good reason.
- timschmidt 2y ago
  Did you find any assumptions in the references I provided? Since you evoked the cartels as a boogeyman it seems relevant to point out that they're one of our own creation. Changes to US policy no greater or more complex than those proposed for immigration could eliminate the economic conditions which drive their violence.
rangestransform 2y ago
Well prescreening immigrants lets us avoid dealing with the consequences of our actions, so why not
- timschmidt 2y ago
  Poe's law strikes again. I'm unsure if you're being sarcastic or not. I think the consequences of our actions will find us one way or another regardless of immigration policy. That's not an argument against screening, but for policy reform.
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    The government has a responsibility to minimize the consequences on its own people, everyone else be damned. Of course the US needs screening for immigrants, and I don’t know anyone reasonable who’d argue otherwise. Zero crime among immigrants is unrealistic, but society should make the tradeoff there based on economic and social factors instead of feeling any kind of moral obligation wrt. immigration.
- rpmisms 2y ago
  If I can avoid dealing with the ruinous consequences of governments that existed before I was born, I absolutely will.

kjkjadksj 2y ago

Cartel members are already here you know. It’s not their mere presence that results in wanton violence and a lack of government authority to deal with it.