3 ms·

Why are some societies worse off than others, to the point where someone would need to move countries take their entitlements? Might it have something to do wi

Why are some societies worse off than others, to the point where someone would need to move countries take their entitlements? Might it have something to do with what the entitled countries did to the ones that are worse off?

tonynator 2y ago
[flagged]
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
  I see what you did there. But no, most studies seem to indicate intelligence is correlated with lower authoritarianism. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289624000254 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...
  - tonynator 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
      Now I'm just curious, how the fuck does race determine IQ? That sounds like some nazi shit...
      - tonynator 2y ago
        Yes it does, that means "sounds correct." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption... Black kids adopted by well-off White families remain lower IQ than White kids adopted by well-off White families. In a world that actually gave a shit about the truth this wouldn't be news to you
        _heimdall 2y ago
        Your example would actually prove the negative here. Adopting a black kid into the white family did not change the kid's race. Adoption only changes the kid's environment. How do you read that as an indicator that race was the differentiator? Do you mean only race of the immediate family in the household, not race of the person taking the test? That seems like a stretch to say it's race based at that point, and also a pretty useless data point unless your recommendation is to somehow leverage that by adopting more kids into white families because your belief is that will make them score higher on an IQ test and that a higher IQ score is a meaningful enough metric to propose such a big intervention.
        tonynator 2y ago
        [dead]
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      Correlation and causation are a very different thing. I don't have a solid enough understanding of the research to say whether IQ scores are correlated with race, but it seems plausible enough to me. That is very different from saying races causes it though. To study such a thing you have to control for so many other environmental and economic factors that it's unrealistic to do. The population sizes would be too small, or you missed controls and the data is garbage.
      - tonynator 2y ago
        Yeah you go do that in the Congo. Get some up close and personal research done
- _heimdall 2y ago
  I'd be very cautious reading anything into IQ results with no other context. An IQ test result is only a good metric of how a person compares to the rest of the population with regards to the specific types of questions and modalities in the IQ test. An IQ result alone is pretty meaningless, especially if you haven't done te research to validate that the IQ test is a high quality predictor of twhstever you are using it as an analog for. If you have reproducable research showing a link between the IQ test design and authoritarianism I'd be very interested to see it. I've never seen such a study, at least a study done with any scientific rigor.
  - rpmisms 2y ago
    IQ is good as an indicator, not a predictor. You can make assumptions that will likely be true on the basis of IQ, but there's very little that you can say for an absolute fact on that basis.
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      I think we're saying the same thing here. I'd argue IQ is correlated with the some outcome, but that it causal of few or none. Is that roughly what you're getting at too? When IQ is indicative but not predictive, I just don't see much use there. If I can't predict future behavior, success, or some other metric then I'm not sure why I'd zero in in IQ specifically. I have also found past experience to be indicitive but not predictive, and I don't need to trust a standardized testing method to review experience.
      - rpmisms 2y ago
        I will agree based on anecdata alone. I have a high IQ, but have achieved much less than you might predict based on that IQ alone--primarily out of lack of desire. Even though on paper I may be high-potential, in real life I'd prefer to be normal, and for every one of me that exists, there's a 100 IQ person who has the drive and willpower to achieve things that would be considered atypical. Both of us are exceptions, but we both still exist.
- anthk 2y ago
  Say that to the Pol Pot Vietnamese. Or the Maoist in China. Or the Francoist in Spain.
creato 2y ago
Even if we accept this point as fact, which I think is maybe, partially true in some cases, it’s such a ridiculous argument. Do you think the average American is going to think that because their 3-10x generation ancestors, who might not even have existed in this country, might have been assholes to the 3-10x generation ancestors of these immigrants today, that they are now unable to have an opinion on how their government handles immigration and entitlements?
rangestransform 2y ago
That doesn’t force upon the US any responsibility at all to deal with it

tonynator 2y ago

[flagged]

AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
I see what you did there. But no, most studies seem to indicate intelligence is correlated with lower authoritarianism. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289624000254 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01602...
- tonynator 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
    Now I'm just curious, how the fuck does race determine IQ? That sounds like some nazi shit...
    - tonynator 2y ago
      Yes it does, that means "sounds correct." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Transracial_Adoption... Black kids adopted by well-off White families remain lower IQ than White kids adopted by well-off White families. In a world that actually gave a shit about the truth this wouldn't be news to you
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        Your example would actually prove the negative here. Adopting a black kid into the white family did not change the kid's race. Adoption only changes the kid's environment. How do you read that as an indicator that race was the differentiator? Do you mean only race of the immediate family in the household, not race of the person taking the test? That seems like a stretch to say it's race based at that point, and also a pretty useless data point unless your recommendation is to somehow leverage that by adopting more kids into white families because your belief is that will make them score higher on an IQ test and that a higher IQ score is a meaningful enough metric to propose such a big intervention.
        tonynator 2y ago
        [dead]
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    Correlation and causation are a very different thing. I don't have a solid enough understanding of the research to say whether IQ scores are correlated with race, but it seems plausible enough to me. That is very different from saying races causes it though. To study such a thing you have to control for so many other environmental and economic factors that it's unrealistic to do. The population sizes would be too small, or you missed controls and the data is garbage.
    - tonynator 2y ago
      Yeah you go do that in the Congo. Get some up close and personal research done
_heimdall 2y ago
I'd be very cautious reading anything into IQ results with no other context. An IQ test result is only a good metric of how a person compares to the rest of the population with regards to the specific types of questions and modalities in the IQ test. An IQ result alone is pretty meaningless, especially if you haven't done te research to validate that the IQ test is a high quality predictor of twhstever you are using it as an analog for. If you have reproducable research showing a link between the IQ test design and authoritarianism I'd be very interested to see it. I've never seen such a study, at least a study done with any scientific rigor.
- rpmisms 2y ago
  IQ is good as an indicator, not a predictor. You can make assumptions that will likely be true on the basis of IQ, but there's very little that you can say for an absolute fact on that basis.
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    I think we're saying the same thing here. I'd argue IQ is correlated with the some outcome, but that it causal of few or none. Is that roughly what you're getting at too? When IQ is indicative but not predictive, I just don't see much use there. If I can't predict future behavior, success, or some other metric then I'm not sure why I'd zero in in IQ specifically. I have also found past experience to be indicitive but not predictive, and I don't need to trust a standardized testing method to review experience.
    - rpmisms 2y ago
      I will agree based on anecdata alone. I have a high IQ, but have achieved much less than you might predict based on that IQ alone--primarily out of lack of desire. Even though on paper I may be high-potential, in real life I'd prefer to be normal, and for every one of me that exists, there's a 100 IQ person who has the drive and willpower to achieve things that would be considered atypical. Both of us are exceptions, but we both still exist.
anthk 2y ago
Say that to the Pol Pot Vietnamese. Or the Maoist in China. Or the Francoist in Spain.

creato 2y ago

Even if we accept this point as fact, which I think is maybe, partially true in some cases, it’s such a ridiculous argument. Do you think the average American is going to think that because their 3-10x generation ancestors, who might not even have existed in this country, might have been assholes to the 3-10x generation ancestors of these immigrants today, that they are now unable to have an opinion on how their government handles immigration and entitlements?

rangestransform 2y ago

That doesn’t force upon the US any responsibility at all to deal with it