5 ms·
What if *some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically un
by hnpolicestate 2y ago
What if *some* highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties.
Most people globally aren't used to the American interpretation of free speech or gun rights. I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I think this is a fair point to make.
- michaelhoney 2y agothe obsession with gun rights is doing your country far more harm than highly intelligent immigrants ever will
- hnpolicestate 2y agoI honestly don't see it. Statistically or otherwise. Even if it were. It's a protected unalienable right. Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. In my opinion of course.
- bmicraft 2y ago> It's a protected unalienable right. Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. Until the next amendment to it, be that in a couple of years or centuries
- toomuchtodo 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_culture_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_culture_in_the_United_Stat... https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-gun-became-integral-to-the-self-identity-of-millions-of-americans/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-gun-becam... https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13/key-facts... https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/fourth-july-musings-americas-gun-culture-viral-photos-rcna36397 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/fourth-july-musings-am... https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
- sangnoir 2y ago> Cannot under any circumstances be circumvented. Tangentially - I find it fascinating how the originalists on the supreme court get fuzzy on what a "well regulated militia" meant at the time the amendment was written.
- rpmisms 2y agoThis has been explained ad nauseum, but here goes. Well-regulated meant, at the time, in good working order. The militia meant, and still means, able-bodied men from 18 to 45. The right was granted to the people, not the militia. Please make snide comments in good faith, at least.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 15155 2y agoThis argument is so tired: the meaning of this prefatory clause is not intended to be a limitation as some would hope. Nobody is "fuzzy" - the left-most SCOTUS Justices don't make this argument, see Caetano v. Massachusetts.
- michaelhoney 2y ago[flagged]
- tonynator 2y agoImagine being a European and not being allowed to defend yourself lol
- OfficeChad 2y ago[dead]
- AnarchismIsCool 2y agoI'm with you on this, but imagine being an American in prison for 10 years because you drilled a 1/8" hole .123" from the edge of a funny shaped piece of aluminum.
- tonynator 2y agoYeah that is also pretty pathetic, agreed.
- tstrimple 2y agoWay to invent things that don't happen to instill fear. Just more FUD.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y agoPeople do drill that hole and do get arrested... What's FUD here? Someone was even arrested for selling stainless steel business cards that had a particular bottle-tab looking design laser etched on it.
- nozzlegear 2y agoWhat’s the reference?
- rjbwork 2y agoPresumably the hole that makes a full auto sear in an AR-15 work.
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
- anon291 2y agoAmerica has an extremely low violence rate. If you remove a handful of neighborhoods with particularly bad problems, Americas violent crime rate is on par that of Europe. Given the number of guns in those safe areas, if would seem Americans are made of some good stuff.
- krapp 2y ago>What if some highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. That should be perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of free speech in a democratic society. It's up to you to counter "bad speech" with other speech in the marketplace of ideas. At least that's what I'm told when I complain about all of the American racists and lunatics whose speech I'm supposed to hold sacred, while they try to undermine my rights and values.
- hnpolicestate 2y agoYou inserted their speech where I said "capital and ability". Because you support undermining those rights so you play semantic games. I mean this sincerely, isn't the debate irrelevant? You either support those civil rights or oppose them. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I assume you oppose 1A and 2A. Why not just say it? We wouldn't have to waste time discussing ancillary nonsense.
- krapp 2y ago>You inserted their speech where I said "capital and ability". Because you support undermining those rights so you play semantic games. I never said I supported undermining any particular rights. The phrase "use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties" implies engagement in the political process, which implies free speech, which (notwithstanding your semantic games) is already established as legitimate. >I don't want to put words in your mouth Yes you do, your comment here does so numerous times. So feel free to argue with the strawman, I'm out.
- hnpolicestate 2y agoOkay, sorry.
- anon291 2y agoIt should be within the bounds of speech for people part of our society already Not for people were considering allowing to join our society
- vaidhy 2y agoAre American values static? If not, how did they change over time? Was it some group that used their capital and political organization to make the changes? If so, why is it ok for one group to advocate for a change, but the similar advocacy from another group is not ok? Just for introspection..
- anon291 2y agoAmerican values are... Pretty much static. We've been very anti government for a very long time. Left, right, center... Everyone solidly agrees they need less governance Leftists will scream about civil rights. Right wingers will tut tut about high taxes. Centrists will complain about both. But the message is clear... Less government. More individual autonomy
- danenania 2y agoAmerican government since the beginning of the 20th century has been on a nearly uninterrupted trend of increasing state power, both domestically and internationally. Politicians sometimes pretend to be anti-government to get votes, but every administration spends more than the previous one. I wouldn’t call that static.
- 15155 2y ago> Leftists will scream about civil rights. (Except for that pesky Second Amendment)
- macintux 2y ago> I don't want people coming here using their talents to politically remove my rights. I'm far more concerned by the people who are in power today who want to politically remove women's rights. Others are worried about those who are in power who want to remove gun rights. Immigrants are very, very far down the list of people with power to disrupt our rights.
- nozzlegear 2y agoWhat if some highly intelligent people oppose American values and abuse the first amendment by spreading hatred and neo-Nazi propaganda in the town square? It’s a rhetorical question — this happens already and we handle it the way we’d handle your rhetorical question: shake our heads at the misguided worm brains, ignore it or confront them directly. But either way it’s not a threat to American civil liberties, the Bill of Rights is more robust than that.
- anon291 2y agoYeah personally I'm completely uninterested in skilled immigration. I think the only determining factor is if you demonstrate a commitment to American values. We do not need highly skilled authoritarians. I'd rather get the freedom loving farm worker from Mexico. I'm a Republican if that matters. I have met enough highly skilled immigrants in silicon valley to know that many hold American values in contempt. My own family migrated here so this is not xenophobia. Many of my own ethnic background actively misunderstand and misconstrue American values and should never be allowed to work here much less given citizenship. I have much more in common with the Hispanic farm worker and would prefer to provide a path by which they can come legally through a vetting process which also prevents gang members from flowing in. Also we obviously need a wall on the southern border. I feel like anyone who's been to the border will come to this conclusion if they're being honest with themselves.
- 15155 2y agoHow many of these individuals should we admit annually to our welfare regime?
- kjkjadksj 2y agoYou don’t have to immigrate to the US to do that if you are sufficiently rich.
- chr1 2y agoThat's a valid wish, but there is already a large number of people in America who oppose American values. So in principle there is no difference whether their number will grow by immigration, high birthrate, indoctrination of other peoples children, or adults changing their views. So simply opposing immigration won't accomplish what you want, it will only be used as a weapon against you. If you really want to keep your values, you need to find ways to attract more people who have the same values. E.g. Cubans who run away have a good immunity against communism, that's why people who make it so easy to cross the border by foot, made it hard to enter by boats.
- liversage 2y agoThis is a very controversial topic in Europe where Florence Bergeaud-Blackler's book about how the Muslim Brotherhood is trying to infiltrate European institutions is seen either as a conspiracy theory fueling Islamophobia or a dangerous problem that has to be dealt with to protect society. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-french-academic-paying-a-heavy-price-for-probing-the-muslim-brotherhood/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-french-academic-payi...