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These jobs are low-paying because they're broadly unproductive. If some of them weren't doing these jobs, the wages paid for them at the margin would increase.

These jobs are low-paying because they're broadly unproductive. If some of them weren't doing these jobs, the wages paid for them at the margin would increase. We are vastly better off importing more skilled immigrants to high-income countries, compared to unskilled ones.

lrem 2y ago
How can you call literally feeding the people “broadly unproductive”? It’s low margin, but you can’t have a society supporting your margins without someone doing the bottom jobs.
- petesergeant 2y ago
  Labour productivity has a specific meaning
  - gertlex 2y ago
    Enlighten us, then? And does "broadly unproductive" have a specific meaning, too?
s0rce 2y ago
If we didn't have lower wage workers doing farm work food would be way more expensive and less diverse. I'm not sure how you judge the productivity of the worker...
energy123 2y ago
That's an economically illiterate comment. You're confusing scarcity of labor, which determines price, with the utility that that labor generates.
- stale2002 2y ago
  This isn't the 1900s, dude. If supply for labor goes a bit down, wages will increase a bit, and then companies will be incentivized to replace these bad jobs with automation. Those jobs going away, and wages going up, is a good thing not a bad thing. As few people should be doing those bad jobs as possible, and for the ones that do them, they should be paid more.
markdown 2y ago
They are skilled. Try taking the best and brightest out of Silicon Valley and put them on farms, orchards, and in construction, and see how well they do. This elitist attitude that low-paid workers are "unskilled" workers is bullshit and needs to go.
- zozbot234 2y ago
  You're absolutely right that 'skilled' is merely a relative term and ultimately a social construct. But nonetheless, the fact remains that those skills are so much more abundant and are not soaked up by existing demand (which would drive wage increases at the margin).
- herewulf 2y ago
  As a software engineer who has done plenty of home improvement, gardening, automotive repair, etc, I think the best and brightest would learn quickly. Now, let's take the average farmer, orchard worker, construction worker, and then chuck them into a software job. They wouldn't know where to start and wouldn't get anywhere without the same educational basics that 99% of developers have gone through. That's not elitist, it's just reality. So, there's a clear distinction to be made and it's not necessary to water down every word in the English language because we're afraid of hurting someone's feelings.
  - MisterBastahrd 2y ago
    Uh-huh. Let's see all those soft keyboard jockeys be efficient at hanging drywall and working on a roof all day long with no air conditioning in Texas or Arizona. They won't. They don't have what it takes.
    - bavell 2y ago
      Not all of us "keyboard jockeys" grew up soft and sheltered in big cities. The dry heat of TX/AZ isn't that bad compared to the sweltering humidity of the southeast ;)
      - 2y ago
csomar 2y ago
Construction in a tight real estate market is broadly unproductive?

lrem 2y ago

How can you call literally feeding the people “broadly unproductive”? It’s low margin, but you can’t have a society supporting your margins without someone doing the bottom jobs.

petesergeant 2y ago
Labour productivity has a specific meaning
- gertlex 2y ago
  Enlighten us, then? And does "broadly unproductive" have a specific meaning, too?

s0rce 2y ago

If we didn't have lower wage workers doing farm work food would be way more expensive and less diverse. I'm not sure how you judge the productivity of the worker...

energy123 2y ago

That's an economically illiterate comment. You're confusing scarcity of labor, which determines price, with the utility that that labor generates.

stale2002 2y ago
This isn't the 1900s, dude. If supply for labor goes a bit down, wages will increase a bit, and then companies will be incentivized to replace these bad jobs with automation. Those jobs going away, and wages going up, is a good thing not a bad thing. As few people should be doing those bad jobs as possible, and for the ones that do them, they should be paid more.

markdown 2y ago

They are skilled. Try taking the best and brightest out of Silicon Valley and put them on farms, orchards, and in construction, and see how well they do. This elitist attitude that low-paid workers are "unskilled" workers is bullshit and needs to go.

zozbot234 2y ago
You're absolutely right that 'skilled' is merely a relative term and ultimately a social construct. But nonetheless, the fact remains that those skills are so much more abundant and are not soaked up by existing demand (which would drive wage increases at the margin).
herewulf 2y ago
As a software engineer who has done plenty of home improvement, gardening, automotive repair, etc, I think the best and brightest would learn quickly. Now, let's take the average farmer, orchard worker, construction worker, and then chuck them into a software job. They wouldn't know where to start and wouldn't get anywhere without the same educational basics that 99% of developers have gone through. That's not elitist, it's just reality. So, there's a clear distinction to be made and it's not necessary to water down every word in the English language because we're afraid of hurting someone's feelings.
- MisterBastahrd 2y ago
  Uh-huh. Let's see all those soft keyboard jockeys be efficient at hanging drywall and working on a roof all day long with no air conditioning in Texas or Arizona. They won't. They don't have what it takes.
  - bavell 2y ago
    Not all of us "keyboard jockeys" grew up soft and sheltered in big cities. The dry heat of TX/AZ isn't that bad compared to the sweltering humidity of the southeast ;)
    - 2y ago

csomar 2y ago

Construction in a tight real estate market is broadly unproductive?