4 ms·

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

by BurningFrog 2y ago

wslh 2y ago
The article exactly says "US embargo".
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Sure, but a lot of people seem to think Cuba is cut off from world trade. They're only cut off from one country. Someone called it a "blockade" on this page.
  - spacebanana7 2y ago
    Cuba’s ability to trade with the rest of the world severely impaired by the US embargo. Most international banks get very nervous about facilitating transactions involving Cuba and even tourists who visit Cuba can have their travel to the US restricted. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requireme...
    - mgbmtl 2y ago
      Cuba rarely stamps passports to avoid those problems. They give you a piece of paper with a stamp, that you return on your way out.
  - berdario 2y ago
    At minute 12:33 in this video it explains the 180-days rule and other details: https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN it might not be completely cut off, but the embargo is harsh, especially for an island ot only 10M people
  - incahoots 2y ago
    The US embargo includes NATO members. I don’t have the source handy at the moment but it’s clear that any current trade partners with the US would be violating the embargo if they attempt read with Cuba.
    - inhumantsar 2y ago
      That is not true. Canada trades with Cuba and has done so for decades.
  - eoverride 2y ago
    This is very misleading. From Wikipedia: ”The United States has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba.” "While the US measures against Cuba do not amount to a blockade in a technical or formal sense, their cumulative effect is to put an economic stranglehold on the island, which not only prevents the United States intercourse but also effectively blocks commerce with other states, their citizens and companies." ”Despite the existence of the embargo, Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many countries, including many US allies; however, US-based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_...
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    My friend's father can't travel to the US anymore (including transfer flights through) because he is higher up in a nickel mining company that does a lot of business in Cuba. Bank accounts, trading accounts, wire transfers, etc.. nothing can go through the US. Ships that dock in Cuban ports can't then go on to dock in US ports. etc. etc. etc It's a kind of blockade
pimpampum 2y ago
[flagged]
- Aloisius 2y ago
  When is the last time the US sanctioned a foreign company for trading with Cuba? Has it ever happened?
  - cmrdporcupine 2y ago
    It happens all the time. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/canada-furious-with-u-s-over-sanctions-warning-3135925.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/canada-furious-with-u-s-... https://www.thecasecentre.org/products/view?id=70853 https://www.thecasecentre.org/products/view?id=70853
    - Aloisius 2y ago
      All the time? Both of those are from 1996. It seems the US in 1996-97 barred executives from at least two other companies doing business with Cuba from entering the US. I can’t seem to find any information about them having financial sanctions against them however.
- danlugo92 2y ago
  Source?
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  That last word makes this conversation not worth continuing.
linearrust 2y ago
> Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. And that's the only embargo that matters. Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. Especially so for cuba since it's just right off the coast of florida. > The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them. No they do not.
- TapWaterBandit 2y ago
  > Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. No way is this true. Look at this list of countries by biggest trade partners (import & export) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_leading_trade_partners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_leading_t.... You really think countries will willing choose to trade with the USA over the rest of the world when it isn't the biggest destination for their exports nor their major source of imports? Why would they do that exactly?
  - Galanwe 2y ago
    > You really think countries will willing choose to trade with the USA over the rest of the world when it isn't the biggest destination for their exports nor their major source of imports? Why would they do that exactly? Yes, any day. Because US embargos prevent you from trading in USD, which is pretty much the de facto currency for any trade due to its stability and backing. Also, even if you manage to settle your trade in say EUR, you now have to trade without using any US intermediary. Nothing related to this trade can involve a US bank, payment system, legal firm, etc. A US embargo is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a country. Only if your country has already strong ties to the middle east, Russia or China can you hope to do any sort of export.
    - TapWaterBandit 2y ago
      Dream on, dude. Look into how the sanctions against Russia are going, not very well. https://www.thetimes.com/article/66dfc09e-c94a-4846-a4e2-60def20d92c2?shareToken=e5204e6017950c0906e43acbd5afb63d https://www.thetimes.com/article/66dfc09e-c94a-4846-a4e2-60d... I swear some Americans seem to think the world they live in is from 1955 or 1975 or something. The US is just one player amongst many, a very important one but by no means the paramount one for every country in the world. The idea it is simply isn't backed by facts on the ground. So yea, if forced to choose between USA vs Rest of World virtually every country will choose RoW. Americans are delusional if they think they can just snap their fingers and everybody else will jump to attention.
Galanwe 2y ago
US embargos are much, much more than just preventing Country <-> US trades. - The US applies embargo transitively. That means any movement of fund related to an embargoed country and transiting to the US is illegal. In other words, you cannot use a US bank, mortgage, funding, accounting firm, etc for these trades. - The US applies extra territotial rules to USD. Any trade involving USD, even if completely remote to the US, is under US jurisdiction. These constraints make a US embargo a very, very high bar to do any kind of trade.
sorushn 2y ago
Sounds like you deeply misunderstand how US embargo works.
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  I'm repeating what I've read in many places, but I don't know much detail myself. So that could be true. If you have a link explaining how it actually works, I'd appreciate it!
tryauuum 2y ago
Don't know much about embargoes but at least with GPUs it's much more evil Even if GPU manufacturer sells GPUs to a company which is not in embargo list they usually have agreements in place about not reselling them to the companies in embargo list

Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them.

wslh 2y ago

The article exactly says "US embargo".

BurningFrog 2y ago
Sure, but a lot of people seem to think Cuba is cut off from world trade. They're only cut off from one country. Someone called it a "blockade" on this page.
- spacebanana7 2y ago
  Cuba’s ability to trade with the rest of the world severely impaired by the US embargo. Most international banks get very nervous about facilitating transactions involving Cuba and even tourists who visit Cuba can have their travel to the US restricted. https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requirements https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/entry-requireme...
  - mgbmtl 2y ago
    Cuba rarely stamps passports to avoid those problems. They give you a piece of paper with a stamp, that you return on your way out.
- berdario 2y ago
  At minute 12:33 in this video it explains the 180-days rule and other details: https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN https://youtu.be/WgWK6_AYq_o?si=5aqdt7DW-gYd7XdN it might not be completely cut off, but the embargo is harsh, especially for an island ot only 10M people
- incahoots 2y ago
  The US embargo includes NATO members. I don’t have the source handy at the moment but it’s clear that any current trade partners with the US would be violating the embargo if they attempt read with Cuba.
  - inhumantsar 2y ago
    That is not true. Canada trades with Cuba and has done so for decades.
- eoverride 2y ago
  This is very misleading. From Wikipedia: ”The United States has threatened to stop financial aid to other countries if they trade non-food items with Cuba.” "While the US measures against Cuba do not amount to a blockade in a technical or formal sense, their cumulative effect is to put an economic stranglehold on the island, which not only prevents the United States intercourse but also effectively blocks commerce with other states, their citizens and companies." ”Despite the existence of the embargo, Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many countries, including many US allies; however, US-based companies, and companies that do business with the US, which trade in Cuba do so at the risk of US sanctions.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_Cuba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_embargo_against_...
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  My friend's father can't travel to the US anymore (including transfer flights through) because he is higher up in a nickel mining company that does a lot of business in Cuba. Bank accounts, trading accounts, wire transfers, etc.. nothing can go through the US. Ships that dock in Cuban ports can't then go on to dock in US ports. etc. etc. etc It's a kind of blockade

pimpampum 2y ago

[flagged]

Aloisius 2y ago
When is the last time the US sanctioned a foreign company for trading with Cuba? Has it ever happened?
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  It happens all the time. https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/canada-furious-with-u-s-over-sanctions-warning-3135925.php https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/canada-furious-with-u-s-... https://www.thecasecentre.org/products/view?id=70853 https://www.thecasecentre.org/products/view?id=70853
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    All the time? Both of those are from 1996. It seems the US in 1996-97 barred executives from at least two other companies doing business with Cuba from entering the US. I can’t seem to find any information about them having financial sanctions against them however.
danlugo92 2y ago
Source?
BurningFrog 2y ago
That last word makes this conversation not worth continuing.

linearrust 2y ago

> Note that it's only the US that has an embargo against Cuba. And that's the only embargo that matters. Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. Especially so for cuba since it's just right off the coast of florida. > The rest of the world trades pretty freely with them. No they do not.

TapWaterBandit 2y ago
> Given a choice between an embargo by the US or embargo by the rest of the world, cuba and every country in the world would choose 'the rest of the world'. No way is this true. Look at this list of countries by biggest trade partners (import & export) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_leading_trade_partners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_leading_t.... You really think countries will willing choose to trade with the USA over the rest of the world when it isn't the biggest destination for their exports nor their major source of imports? Why would they do that exactly?
- Galanwe 2y ago
  > You really think countries will willing choose to trade with the USA over the rest of the world when it isn't the biggest destination for their exports nor their major source of imports? Why would they do that exactly? Yes, any day. Because US embargos prevent you from trading in USD, which is pretty much the de facto currency for any trade due to its stability and backing. Also, even if you manage to settle your trade in say EUR, you now have to trade without using any US intermediary. Nothing related to this trade can involve a US bank, payment system, legal firm, etc. A US embargo is pretty much the worst thing that can happen to a country. Only if your country has already strong ties to the middle east, Russia or China can you hope to do any sort of export.
  - TapWaterBandit 2y ago
    Dream on, dude. Look into how the sanctions against Russia are going, not very well. https://www.thetimes.com/article/66dfc09e-c94a-4846-a4e2-60def20d92c2?shareToken=e5204e6017950c0906e43acbd5afb63d https://www.thetimes.com/article/66dfc09e-c94a-4846-a4e2-60d... I swear some Americans seem to think the world they live in is from 1955 or 1975 or something. The US is just one player amongst many, a very important one but by no means the paramount one for every country in the world. The idea it is simply isn't backed by facts on the ground. So yea, if forced to choose between USA vs Rest of World virtually every country will choose RoW. Americans are delusional if they think they can just snap their fingers and everybody else will jump to attention.

Galanwe 2y ago

US embargos are much, much more than just preventing Country <-> US trades. - The US applies embargo transitively. That means any movement of fund related to an embargoed country and transiting to the US is illegal. In other words, you cannot use a US bank, mortgage, funding, accounting firm, etc for these trades. - The US applies extra territotial rules to USD. Any trade involving USD, even if completely remote to the US, is under US jurisdiction. These constraints make a US embargo a very, very high bar to do any kind of trade.

sorushn 2y ago

Sounds like you deeply misunderstand how US embargo works.

BurningFrog 2y ago
I'm repeating what I've read in many places, but I don't know much detail myself. So that could be true. If you have a link explaining how it actually works, I'd appreciate it!

tryauuum 2y ago

Don't know much about embargoes but at least with GPUs it's much more evil Even if GPU manufacturer sells GPUs to a company which is not in embargo list they usually have agreements in place about not reselling them to the companies in embargo list