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> the two main parties are too selfish to want this to happen This is the thing that so many on HN don't get (as evidenced in the replies so far): neither part

> the two main parties are too selfish to want this to happen This is the thing that so many on HN don't get (as evidenced in the replies so far): neither party is your friend. Neither party actually wants solutions because both parties thrive when government is perpetually bad. The Republicans can't actually accomplish their stated goal of completely dismantling government at the federal level because if they did then there would be no federal bogeyman to rally their base against. They can't actually close the border because then there would be no more immigrants to hate. Likewise, the Democrats don't actually want Trump's popularity on the right to fade because then they'd lose the most effective rallying cry they've had in years. The policies they've chosen to focus on are unpopular outside of the far left and have cost them a lot of support from the moderate voters, so their only chance of success is to persuade the moderates that this will be the last fair election if Biden doesn't win. Everyone in Washington knows that the supposed threat to democracy is nonsense. If they believed otherwise they'd have booted Biden out of the race for an electable candidate a year ago. But it's part of the game that they play to get your vote and stay in power. So, to your point: I agree wholeheartedly. The two existing parties are corrupt to the core and there's nothing left to salvage. We need to dismantle the two-party system, and for that we need to fix the voting system. First past the post has to go.

theossuary 2y ago
I will never understand this take. Go look at a map of states implementing/banning ranked-choice voting[1], now go look at a map of states political affiliation[2]. Every state that bans RCV is Republican; every time it's passed it was done so by Democrats or a direct vote. If you want any chance at all of breaking the two party system, it's clear you must vote for Democrats. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_... 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_...
- lolinder 2y ago
  You're correct on the banning front, but Alaska is one of only three states that use RCV in any state-wide elections and Utah is one of only four states that offer it state-wide as an offical option for local elections. The blue-coded states use it in some local jurisdictions but don't encode it at all at the state level. There's definitely a Democratic slant to the 7 states that have some sort of statewide policy approving RCV's use. But then again, Utah has more municipalities listed on that article as actually using it at the local level than all 5 Democratic states (Colorado, New Mexico, Virginia, Maine, Hawaii) combined. In other words, the issue isn't as cut-and-dry in your sources as you make it sound.
  - theossuary 2y ago
    Alaska only has it because of a ballot measure[1], so I don't consider Alaska a win for Republicans. It looks as though Republicans are also trying to end the trial of RCV early in Utah[2]. So, of your examples of Republican states with RCV, it either happened in spite of them, or they're actively trying to get rid of it. Add in examples like Maine where the Republican loser tries to sue, claiming RCV is unconstitutional because it didn't work in his favor[3]; you start to see a pattern of Republicans resisting RCV, and Democrats championing alternative voting styles that don't force a two party system. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Alaska_Measure_2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Alaska_Measure_2 2: https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/15/utah-lawmakers-may-end-ranked-choice-voting-pilot-program-early/ https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/15/utah-la... 3: https://bangordailynews.com/2018/11/15/news/judge-denies-poliquins-request-to-stop-ranked-choice-count-as-decision-nears/ https://bangordailynews.com/2018/11/15/news/judge-denies-pol...
    - lolinder 2y ago
      You can't count Utah out until they actually do something to walk it back, representatives just talking about doing something is usually them just posturing for their base. And if we're excluding ballot measures then you also have to drop Maine [0]. If you drop Maine and Alaska as not representing entrenched party politics then you're left with 4/50 states that implemented a measure allowing RCV at the local (city) level and 1/50 states (Hawaii) that implemented a measure allowing it at the federal level (for special federal elections only). Of the four states that officially allowed RCV at the local level by an act of the legislature, Utah has more municipalities taking advantage of that than the rest of the states combined. I'm not arguing that Republicans are champions of RCV, just that it's pretty obvious that Democrats aren't much better if at all. By your rules, 1/50 states voluntarily allowed RCV for any state or federal election (where party politics usually matter, unlike most local elections), and even that one state's law is only for rare special cases. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Maine_Question_5 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Maine_Ques...

theossuary 2y ago

I will never understand this take. Go look at a map of states implementing/banning ranked-choice voting[1], now go look at a map of states political affiliation[2]. Every state that bans RCV is Republican; every time it's passed it was done so by Democrats or a direct vote. If you want any chance at all of breaking the two party system, it's clear you must vote for Democrats. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked-choice_voting_in_the_... 2: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_U.S._states https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party_strength_in_...

lolinder 2y ago
You're correct on the banning front, but Alaska is one of only three states that use RCV in any state-wide elections and Utah is one of only four states that offer it state-wide as an offical option for local elections. The blue-coded states use it in some local jurisdictions but don't encode it at all at the state level. There's definitely a Democratic slant to the 7 states that have some sort of statewide policy approving RCV's use. But then again, Utah has more municipalities listed on that article as actually using it at the local level than all 5 Democratic states (Colorado, New Mexico, Virginia, Maine, Hawaii) combined. In other words, the issue isn't as cut-and-dry in your sources as you make it sound.
- theossuary 2y ago
  Alaska only has it because of a ballot measure[1], so I don't consider Alaska a win for Republicans. It looks as though Republicans are also trying to end the trial of RCV early in Utah[2]. So, of your examples of Republican states with RCV, it either happened in spite of them, or they're actively trying to get rid of it. Add in examples like Maine where the Republican loser tries to sue, claiming RCV is unconstitutional because it didn't work in his favor[3]; you start to see a pattern of Republicans resisting RCV, and Democrats championing alternative voting styles that don't force a two party system. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Alaska_Measure_2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Alaska_Measure_2 2: https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/15/utah-lawmakers-may-end-ranked-choice-voting-pilot-program-early/ https://www.standard.net/news/government/2024/feb/15/utah-la... 3: https://bangordailynews.com/2018/11/15/news/judge-denies-poliquins-request-to-stop-ranked-choice-count-as-decision-nears/ https://bangordailynews.com/2018/11/15/news/judge-denies-pol...
  - lolinder 2y ago
    You can't count Utah out until they actually do something to walk it back, representatives just talking about doing something is usually them just posturing for their base. And if we're excluding ballot measures then you also have to drop Maine [0]. If you drop Maine and Alaska as not representing entrenched party politics then you're left with 4/50 states that implemented a measure allowing RCV at the local (city) level and 1/50 states (Hawaii) that implemented a measure allowing it at the federal level (for special federal elections only). Of the four states that officially allowed RCV at the local level by an act of the legislature, Utah has more municipalities taking advantage of that than the rest of the states combined. I'm not arguing that Republicans are champions of RCV, just that it's pretty obvious that Democrats aren't much better if at all. By your rules, 1/50 states voluntarily allowed RCV for any state or federal election (where party politics usually matter, unlike most local elections), and even that one state's law is only for rare special cases. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Maine_Question_5 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2016_Maine_Ques...