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"... complaining about some missing references in libc. After spending two evenings ..." This is such a chronic problem with compiling any existing C or C++ co

"... complaining about some missing references in libc. After spending two evenings ..." This is such a chronic problem with compiling any existing C or C++ code. I'm paranoid about touching any new 3rd party software in those languages because of the inevitable frustrating fragility of it all.

adrian_b 2y ago
I do not understand your complaint. Any program, regardless of the language in which it had been written can be problematic to use when it depends on external libraries that you do not have. Python programs are many orders of magnitude more fragile than C/C++ programs, because I have seen plenty of such programs that require a certain Python 3.x version and they refuse to run with Python 3.(x-1) or 3.(x+1), making it difficult to install simultaneously many such programs, each desiring a different value of x.
- EnigmaFlare 2y ago
  Not saying Python's any better. Though how do you make a Python program work on 3.x but not 3.x+1? I thought they had ended backward-incompatibility with the 2 to 3 update? My experience with C/C+=/Fortran problems is not just versions of dependencies but version of compilers, platforms (they're non very portable), and mostly the extreme unhelpfulness of the error messages. It's always some undefined symbol that seems like it should be fine but turns out you're supposed to use all sorts of special command line parameters on the compiler and linker to make it work just right.
- tialaramex 2y ago
  More and more programmers are used to a language which gets this right. Yes, you're correct that neither Python not C++ get this right, it's pretty sad that your conclusion is that therefore it's impossible.
  - felixgallo 2y ago
    Don’t be coy, out with it! Legions of programmers are dying to know which language has solved versioning and dependencies.
    - tialaramex 2y ago
      No, I'd imagine most of them are comfortably using a language like Rust which got this right out of the box, or are like OP grumpily insisting that it's impossible and so nothing better can be done. One of the perverse things about human nature is that many people would rather believe nothing better is possible than go to any effort at all to improve things.
      - felixgallo 2y ago
        What rust is that? Nightly?
    - GauntletWizard 2y ago
      Golang, for one. If you have a diamond dependency problem where two libraries want to use a common ancestors that's incompatible, you're screwed, but otherwise you've got a nice merkle tree of dependency versions built into the tooling.

adrian_b 2y ago

I do not understand your complaint. Any program, regardless of the language in which it had been written can be problematic to use when it depends on external libraries that you do not have. Python programs are many orders of magnitude more fragile than C/C++ programs, because I have seen plenty of such programs that require a certain Python 3.x version and they refuse to run with Python 3.(x-1) or 3.(x+1), making it difficult to install simultaneously many such programs, each desiring a different value of x.

EnigmaFlare 2y ago
Not saying Python's any better. Though how do you make a Python program work on 3.x but not 3.x+1? I thought they had ended backward-incompatibility with the 2 to 3 update? My experience with C/C+=/Fortran problems is not just versions of dependencies but version of compilers, platforms (they're non very portable), and mostly the extreme unhelpfulness of the error messages. It's always some undefined symbol that seems like it should be fine but turns out you're supposed to use all sorts of special command line parameters on the compiler and linker to make it work just right.
tialaramex 2y ago
More and more programmers are used to a language which gets this right. Yes, you're correct that neither Python not C++ get this right, it's pretty sad that your conclusion is that therefore it's impossible.
- felixgallo 2y ago
  Don’t be coy, out with it! Legions of programmers are dying to know which language has solved versioning and dependencies.
  - tialaramex 2y ago
    No, I'd imagine most of them are comfortably using a language like Rust which got this right out of the box, or are like OP grumpily insisting that it's impossible and so nothing better can be done. One of the perverse things about human nature is that many people would rather believe nothing better is possible than go to any effort at all to improve things.
    - felixgallo 2y ago
      What rust is that? Nightly?
  - GauntletWizard 2y ago
    Golang, for one. If you have a diamond dependency problem where two libraries want to use a common ancestors that's incompatible, you're screwed, but otherwise you've got a nice merkle tree of dependency versions built into the tooling.