4 ms·

Measurement error in gas networks can be 15% of volume, so not precise enough for this work.

szundi 2y ago
omg this is real?
idiotsecant 2y ago
When accurate metering is called for we have the tech to do it just fine to far less than <1% error. This is a classic case where regulation is required. Rational capitalist enterprise is not going to fix this on their own. They don't currently have the right incentives.
- closewith 2y ago
  To 1% volume, like rotary meters, but not 1% mass. At least not at reasonable cost. But you are right that regulation is the answer, although personally I think direct leak detection is more realistic than measuring gas flows accurately in a system that's already built around low accuracy metering.
  - idiotsecant 2y ago
    Coriolis flow meters in natural gas have been accurate and pretty inexpensive since the 1990s with accuracies better than 99% on the extreme low end and 99.5% on the high end. Its easy to say that anything is 'too expensive' when the regulatory bar is set so low that it doesn't exist.
    - closewith 2y ago
      Right, you could put a combustible-gas-safe mass flow sensor on every gas line, high and low pressure, at a cost of roughly 100x current rotary and aperture flow meters, but then metering would become by far the largest cost in gas production.
      - iamthemonster 2y ago
        Nope, Ex rated coriolis flowmeters are barely $150k.
        closewith 2y ago
        A residential rotary gas meter costs less than €15, and that's the long tail you need to replace to measure losses accurately. Edit: And current turbine and aperture flow meters cost hundreds.
        idiotsecant 2y ago
        Ok...I don't think everyone here is saying you should put a Coriolis meter on every single residential service. That would be insane.
        closewith 2y ago
        This thread is in response to a user who commented above: > Even if not every pope is metered, at the very least there should be metering at the point of bulk purchase (eg. from a LNG ship) to the end user (gas meter at a home).
whall6 2y ago
Source?

omg this is real?

When accurate metering is called for we have the tech to do it just fine to far less than <1% error. This is a classic case where regulation is required. Rational capitalist enterprise is not going to fix this on their own. They don't currently have the right incentives.

closewith 2y ago
To 1% volume, like rotary meters, but not 1% mass. At least not at reasonable cost. But you are right that regulation is the answer, although personally I think direct leak detection is more realistic than measuring gas flows accurately in a system that's already built around low accuracy metering.
- idiotsecant 2y ago
  Coriolis flow meters in natural gas have been accurate and pretty inexpensive since the 1990s with accuracies better than 99% on the extreme low end and 99.5% on the high end. Its easy to say that anything is 'too expensive' when the regulatory bar is set so low that it doesn't exist.
  - closewith 2y ago
    Right, you could put a combustible-gas-safe mass flow sensor on every gas line, high and low pressure, at a cost of roughly 100x current rotary and aperture flow meters, but then metering would become by far the largest cost in gas production.
    - iamthemonster 2y ago
      Nope, Ex rated coriolis flowmeters are barely $150k.
      - closewith 2y ago
        A residential rotary gas meter costs less than €15, and that's the long tail you need to replace to measure losses accurately. Edit: And current turbine and aperture flow meters cost hundreds.
        idiotsecant 2y ago
        Ok...I don't think everyone here is saying you should put a Coriolis meter on every single residential service. That would be insane.
        closewith 2y ago
        This thread is in response to a user who commented above: > Even if not every pope is metered, at the very least there should be metering at the point of bulk purchase (eg. from a LNG ship) to the end user (gas meter at a home).

whall6 2y ago

Source?