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interesting puff piece. The real title is "metrics foreign banks look at are rising because that's the only thing being focused. metrics for actual well being

interesting puff piece. The real title is "metrics foreign banks look at are rising because that's the only thing being focused. metrics for actual well being down". It's all there between the lines in their source reports. I expect a huge, huge, loan soon. Then temporary reprieve for the population with some populist actions. Right around re-election.

hsavit1 2y ago
Yeah this piece is top tier delusional, I’m thinking it had to be written by someone with heavy crypto libertarian leanings. Argentina’s poverty rate is currently ~57%. See https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-argentinas-poverty-fall-under-mileis-government/#:~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%2057.4,had%20on%20poverty%20in%20Argentina%3F https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-argentinas-poverty...
- kspacewalk2 2y ago
  Not sure in what way high poverty levels invalidate the idea of the economy growing beyond expectations. Rwanda's economy is growing quite fast while we here in Canada are experiencing at best zero growth. That isn't really related to how our poverty levels compare.
  - AstralStorm 2y ago
    Isn't that the whole trickle down unsubstantiated bullshit used to sell all sorts of non working measures to the masses? So, the whole problem is pretty obvious: you cannot save enough to invest. Banks are not interested in savings, they're interested in extraction of cheap labor and resources - which requires owning. Investment as well is only provided under bad rates, under such speculation. And when it's not the locals owning anything, they remain poor and cannot save. Economic growth is a wrong measure of wealth: one needs to look at who grows.
  - 1oooqooq 2y ago
    you really don't see the contradiction in your own argument? well i guess you must be a Canadian desperate to move to Rwanda then...
    - AlexeyBelov 2y ago
      I think you misunderstand. Let's take imaginary points for example. Canada in 2023: 100. Rwanda in 2023: 10. Canada in 2024: 102. Rwanda in 2024: 20. Does it make sense now?
dmix 2y ago
Milei's whole pitch was that growth was never going to be immediate given the incredibly poor state the economy/administration was in and how dependent everyone had become on gov spending to do anything. He said from the beginning that there was going to be a period of economic hardship in the first years and then things will slowly start getting better as the system is restructured. If anything the growth numbers might actually be a sign that the existing systems and institutions are still largely continuing (Milei never had full control of congress) and it might merely be optimism by financial systems that anything at all new is being attempted.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  you are repeating the campaign, not actual economic argument. why the country was broken? because it pandered to external loans and then small elite robbed everything. what is the current economy doing? proving even less services than before just to prepare for new loans. money is still not reaching the services. gov saving is a contradiction. gov spending is the goal of government. no government is a profit making machine. like he made you believe Argentina should be in the campaign. that's literal crazy talk. nobody look at a govt a judge it for how much it saved for retirement but how the people and infrastructure is being served. that is what brings real investments. the point Millei supporters refuse to see is that there's no "improving a credit score via hardship" if the goal is not too reset back to loans and corruption. two Brazil presidents ago the loan+corruption cycle was addressed by a president who didn't cut costs, she put laws against corruption in place, which led to a Senate coup against her. lol. but that's the real solution to a broken country. not "tightening the belt". again, that only makes future loans look better, not the overall economy. and if your care about loans instead of the country next step is kind obvious.
  - pas 2y ago
    it's important to not feed the corrupt market participants, because they crowd out the actually productive ones. yes, laws against corruption and waste, enforcement of said laws are how it should start. then with better accountability, transparency, mandatory reporting, and related regulations (and databases) are in place the old rentseeking organizations can be eliminated. without those instruments what remains is just a blunt tool. the question is ... if the government withdraws from sectors is there even any chance for legitimate businesses to move in or the old guard will just put their hands on these new relatively lucrative areas too? usually inviting foreign companies helps. how easy it is to do business in Argentina? (official dollarization would definitely help ... after all it already happened in the actual economy ... https://cpsi.media/p/why-and-how-to-dollarize-argentina https://cpsi.media/p/why-and-how-to-dollarize-argentina )

hsavit1 2y ago

Yeah this piece is top tier delusional, I’m thinking it had to be written by someone with heavy crypto libertarian leanings. Argentina’s poverty rate is currently ~57%. See https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-argentinas-poverty-fall-under-mileis-government/#:~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%2057.4,had%20on%20poverty%20in%20Argentina%3F https://www.thedialogue.org/analysis/will-argentinas-poverty...

kspacewalk2 2y ago
Not sure in what way high poverty levels invalidate the idea of the economy growing beyond expectations. Rwanda's economy is growing quite fast while we here in Canada are experiencing at best zero growth. That isn't really related to how our poverty levels compare.
- AstralStorm 2y ago
  Isn't that the whole trickle down unsubstantiated bullshit used to sell all sorts of non working measures to the masses? So, the whole problem is pretty obvious: you cannot save enough to invest. Banks are not interested in savings, they're interested in extraction of cheap labor and resources - which requires owning. Investment as well is only provided under bad rates, under such speculation. And when it's not the locals owning anything, they remain poor and cannot save. Economic growth is a wrong measure of wealth: one needs to look at who grows.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  you really don't see the contradiction in your own argument? well i guess you must be a Canadian desperate to move to Rwanda then...
  - AlexeyBelov 2y ago
    I think you misunderstand. Let's take imaginary points for example. Canada in 2023: 100. Rwanda in 2023: 10. Canada in 2024: 102. Rwanda in 2024: 20. Does it make sense now?

dmix 2y ago

Milei's whole pitch was that growth was never going to be immediate given the incredibly poor state the economy/administration was in and how dependent everyone had become on gov spending to do anything. He said from the beginning that there was going to be a period of economic hardship in the first years and then things will slowly start getting better as the system is restructured. If anything the growth numbers might actually be a sign that the existing systems and institutions are still largely continuing (Milei never had full control of congress) and it might merely be optimism by financial systems that anything at all new is being attempted.

1oooqooq 2y ago
you are repeating the campaign, not actual economic argument. why the country was broken? because it pandered to external loans and then small elite robbed everything. what is the current economy doing? proving even less services than before just to prepare for new loans. money is still not reaching the services. gov saving is a contradiction. gov spending is the goal of government. no government is a profit making machine. like he made you believe Argentina should be in the campaign. that's literal crazy talk. nobody look at a govt a judge it for how much it saved for retirement but how the people and infrastructure is being served. that is what brings real investments. the point Millei supporters refuse to see is that there's no "improving a credit score via hardship" if the goal is not too reset back to loans and corruption. two Brazil presidents ago the loan+corruption cycle was addressed by a president who didn't cut costs, she put laws against corruption in place, which led to a Senate coup against her. lol. but that's the real solution to a broken country. not "tightening the belt". again, that only makes future loans look better, not the overall economy. and if your care about loans instead of the country next step is kind obvious.
- pas 2y ago
  it's important to not feed the corrupt market participants, because they crowd out the actually productive ones. yes, laws against corruption and waste, enforcement of said laws are how it should start. then with better accountability, transparency, mandatory reporting, and related regulations (and databases) are in place the old rentseeking organizations can be eliminated. without those instruments what remains is just a blunt tool. the question is ... if the government withdraws from sectors is there even any chance for legitimate businesses to move in or the old guard will just put their hands on these new relatively lucrative areas too? usually inviting foreign companies helps. how easy it is to do business in Argentina? (official dollarization would definitely help ... after all it already happened in the actual economy ... https://cpsi.media/p/why-and-how-to-dollarize-argentina https://cpsi.media/p/why-and-how-to-dollarize-argentina )