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> 2. What the GOP platform is for prices & inflation. Tax cuts, 10% tariffs, forcing interest rate cuts, and mass deportation would all seem to lead to more mon

> 2. What the GOP platform is for prices & inflation. Tax cuts, 10% tariffs, forcing interest rate cuts, and mass deportation would all seem to lead to more money in the economy or direct price increases I hate to be this cynical because I think policymakers and economists who lean in different ideological differences all have contributions to make, and in some way probably value right wing economic ideas slightly more than left wing ones But It seems pretty clear to me that the goal of the Republican platform is just to be as self serving as possible and there is no actual plan for a healthy economy, and at best they might engineer temporary economic outcomes that benefit certain groups, I wouldn’t be surprised it there’s some kind of big economic crash aka 2008 in the next 10 years. I would be genuinely interested to hear how I’m wrong.

hakfoo 2y ago
The way they've completely given up on education is the key evidence they have no economic vision. No matter what stimulus hack you do for the next quarter, you need to be educating the next generation in a way that leaves us competitive with other industrial powers. They don't even talk about outcomes and scores anymore-- they just stoke social warfare. You know, if the kids are reading because there's an "OMG OBSCENE" book in the library, AT LEAST THEY'RE MOTIVATED TO READ. America is not doing a good job of presenting a voice for the future. China has "we're cheap and we've moved fast on greentech." Many Western European countries have gone the boutique/artisan/high quality route. Where does American manufacturing fit into the story?
- pfannkuchen 2y ago
  American manufacturing won’t have to compete on a level playing field with foreign competition if there are significant tariffs though, which is part of the platform AFAIK. So I guess it would fit as “making things Americans buy”?
  - hakfoo 2y ago
    I can't imagine that being a compelling sales pitch even to domestic investors. If Americans are trapped by tarrifs and have to buy whatever domestic-made rubbish is available, and you're not getting a high-quality workforce, why bother investing anything in new designs and manufacturing; hell, break out the old tooling and start cranking out Chrysler LeBarons again! It's like we're determined to emulate the rapid economic miracles of Japan, South Korea, and the PRC but in reverse. And it's not even out of some principled stand like "we need degrowth to save the environment", but because rich people don't want to pay taxes for schools and infrastructure.
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      It’s not a compelling sales pitch to investors anywhere, I don’t think that’s the point. It’s a compelling sales pitch to workers in regions where economic prospects have dropped off a cliff in the past few decades. If you have no personal ties to those areas it may be hard to relate. I don’t see why this would equate to low quality. Domestic companies are free to compete. Many countries have historically boot strapped industry through heavy use of tariffs. Japan is a great example, their auto industry likely wouldn’t exist without heavy tariffs in the beginning and China has extremely protectionist economic policy to this day.
      - taylodl 2y ago
        That's great except the US economy has been fueled by debt for the past 50 years - and a lot of that money fueling the debt comes from overseas. You drop your compelling sales pitch to investors and their money leaves. I don't think you understand the ramifications of that. We're not talking about boot strapping industries - our industries are mature. They will lose access to world markets if the US decides to double-down on isolationism. That means negative growth for the largest industries in the US.
      - hakfoo 2y ago
        The part of "bootstrap through tarrifs" that's missing here is the "bootstrap" phase. You can get away with selling domestic rubbish to local consumers when you're a poor country with few options. For an established industrial power: 1. Consumers will not change their behaviour unless you apply punitive levels of tarrifs. A 10% tax probably won't make the customers who have bought a Lexus for their last five cars switch to Lincoln. That's probably why Washington felt they could get away with the huge levies on Chinese EVs (a new market with no established consumer behaviour being disrupted), but didn't breathe a word about Made-in-China Buicks (an established market full of old people who vote). 2. It doesn't grow the total pie very much. When you're Outer Slobavia and just getting your first industrial plants off the ground, there's a lot of growth to be had just reclaiming the domestic market from foreign competitors. But the US is a mature player in most of these markets already. Removing foreign competitors will only buy a few percent market share. Admittedly, tarriffs don't cause low quality by themselves. It's more that the package deal being presented is "we won't bother making American industry more competitive, since we can just go insular and high-tarriff to create a captive market to keep American factories alive." Even if you win at that captive market, that's a far smaller upside than if they had instead said "we're going to get back on the leading edge of manufacturing and make American products globally aspirational."
  - taylodl 2y ago
    In other words, isolationism and pandering to an ever-shrinking market. There's no growth and no future in such a scenario. The hilarious thing is that these SV CEOs believe the US can adopt these policies and it won't affect their business abroad. It just shows they're not half as smart as people make them out to be.
downrightmike 2y ago
Tariffs never work to reduce inflation, they do the opposite, its been done over and again by the dumbest minds in the world because it sounds like it should work, but it doesn't actually hold up.

hakfoo 2y ago

The way they've completely given up on education is the key evidence they have no economic vision. No matter what stimulus hack you do for the next quarter, you need to be educating the next generation in a way that leaves us competitive with other industrial powers. They don't even talk about outcomes and scores anymore-- they just stoke social warfare. You know, if the kids are reading because there's an "OMG OBSCENE" book in the library, AT LEAST THEY'RE MOTIVATED TO READ. America is not doing a good job of presenting a voice for the future. China has "we're cheap and we've moved fast on greentech." Many Western European countries have gone the boutique/artisan/high quality route. Where does American manufacturing fit into the story?

pfannkuchen 2y ago
American manufacturing won’t have to compete on a level playing field with foreign competition if there are significant tariffs though, which is part of the platform AFAIK. So I guess it would fit as “making things Americans buy”?
- hakfoo 2y ago
  I can't imagine that being a compelling sales pitch even to domestic investors. If Americans are trapped by tarrifs and have to buy whatever domestic-made rubbish is available, and you're not getting a high-quality workforce, why bother investing anything in new designs and manufacturing; hell, break out the old tooling and start cranking out Chrysler LeBarons again! It's like we're determined to emulate the rapid economic miracles of Japan, South Korea, and the PRC but in reverse. And it's not even out of some principled stand like "we need degrowth to save the environment", but because rich people don't want to pay taxes for schools and infrastructure.
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    It’s not a compelling sales pitch to investors anywhere, I don’t think that’s the point. It’s a compelling sales pitch to workers in regions where economic prospects have dropped off a cliff in the past few decades. If you have no personal ties to those areas it may be hard to relate. I don’t see why this would equate to low quality. Domestic companies are free to compete. Many countries have historically boot strapped industry through heavy use of tariffs. Japan is a great example, their auto industry likely wouldn’t exist without heavy tariffs in the beginning and China has extremely protectionist economic policy to this day.
    - taylodl 2y ago
      That's great except the US economy has been fueled by debt for the past 50 years - and a lot of that money fueling the debt comes from overseas. You drop your compelling sales pitch to investors and their money leaves. I don't think you understand the ramifications of that. We're not talking about boot strapping industries - our industries are mature. They will lose access to world markets if the US decides to double-down on isolationism. That means negative growth for the largest industries in the US.
    - hakfoo 2y ago
      The part of "bootstrap through tarrifs" that's missing here is the "bootstrap" phase. You can get away with selling domestic rubbish to local consumers when you're a poor country with few options. For an established industrial power: 1. Consumers will not change their behaviour unless you apply punitive levels of tarrifs. A 10% tax probably won't make the customers who have bought a Lexus for their last five cars switch to Lincoln. That's probably why Washington felt they could get away with the huge levies on Chinese EVs (a new market with no established consumer behaviour being disrupted), but didn't breathe a word about Made-in-China Buicks (an established market full of old people who vote). 2. It doesn't grow the total pie very much. When you're Outer Slobavia and just getting your first industrial plants off the ground, there's a lot of growth to be had just reclaiming the domestic market from foreign competitors. But the US is a mature player in most of these markets already. Removing foreign competitors will only buy a few percent market share. Admittedly, tarriffs don't cause low quality by themselves. It's more that the package deal being presented is "we won't bother making American industry more competitive, since we can just go insular and high-tarriff to create a captive market to keep American factories alive." Even if you win at that captive market, that's a far smaller upside than if they had instead said "we're going to get back on the leading edge of manufacturing and make American products globally aspirational."
- taylodl 2y ago
  In other words, isolationism and pandering to an ever-shrinking market. There's no growth and no future in such a scenario. The hilarious thing is that these SV CEOs believe the US can adopt these policies and it won't affect their business abroad. It just shows they're not half as smart as people make them out to be.

downrightmike 2y ago

Tariffs never work to reduce inflation, they do the opposite, its been done over and again by the dumbest minds in the world because it sounds like it should work, but it doesn't actually hold up.