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> Now the fascist gov has closed all internet I agree that Sheikh Hasina is extremely authoritarian and corrupt dictator but imo JeI are the actual fascists, a

> Now the fascist gov has closed all internet I agree that Sheikh Hasina is extremely authoritarian and corrupt dictator but imo JeI are the actual fascists, and the BNP has absolutely been enabling them. That said, I agree with you that Hasina's authoritarianism needs to end. Ideally all these old fossils (Hasina, Zia, Rahman, etc) need to be purged and the actual youth (who are the majority of Bangladesh) get a chance to have their voice in power. It's a handful of elite 70 year olds who have been running a country where the median age is 25 and are ruining it due to their own personal drama from the 70s and 80s.

Karrot_Kream 2y ago
Yeah I think "fascist" is too much for any actor not JeI but authoritarian is right. They've cut off Internet and telecom access after all, a dangerous game given how physically close they are to West Bengal.
- BadHumans 2y ago
  > Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Source: Wikipedia This sounds like the very definition of fascism to me.
  - alan-hn 2y ago
    Many people want to either tiptoe around or flat out ignore the far right leanings of fascism to avoid what it says about the US
    - candiodari 2y ago
      [dead]
    - arrowsmith 2y ago
      "Leanings"?
      - alan-hn 2y ago
        You're right, that's too gentle of phrasing. Fascism is a 100% far right ideology. Please excuse my Ameribrain, I'm continuously bathed in conservative capitalist and neoliberal propaganda
  - Karrot_Kream 2y ago
    Which part sounds like fascism? The Awami League is ideologically a center-left party, it's not far right. The quota system that's being protested offers employment quotas to descendants of revolutionaries and minorities. It was the party that founded Bangladesh. Protests are occurring because of the corruption and joblessness that results from these quotas and because the law was overturned earlier but reinstated. Moreover there's no belief in a natural social hierarchy or belief in subordination to the State. If anything the Awami League has historically claimed to champion minorities in the country like Hindus instead of championing Muslim identities like JeI. There's no concept of regimemting society at all by the Awami League, again that's more JeI's domain with its belief in Sharia. Awami League is authoritarian and corrupt yes but not fascist. The Middle East has plenty of authoritarian dictatorships that engage in varying levels of human rights abuses but that does not make them fascist countries. I'm sorry but your comment just comes off as really uniformed about Bdesh and South Asian politics.
    - BadHumans 2y ago
      I'm very uninformed about Bangladeshi and South Asian politics but yes the violent suppression of protests and killing of protestors are the parts that sound a bit fascist to me.
      - Karrot_Kream 2y ago
        Look I realize on lefty parts of the internet that fascism has colloquially become the same as authoritarianism but they are not the same thing. Fascist movements are usually authoritarian but not all authoritarian regimes are fascist. It's an especially bad lens when you look outside the West because the second and third world has had plenty of trouble with left authoritarian regimes and comparatively less trouble with fascism and authoritarian right regimes.
        alephnerd 2y ago
        ^^^ THIS If you're part of the minority Hindu and Christian community in Bangladesh you support Hasina, because the opposition made a coalition deal with hard-core Islamists (JeI) who are supporting the gold digger wife of the former (1980s) Military Dictator who was a puppet (like every other politician in Bangladesh sadly) This does NOT mean Hasina is good. Anything but. Authoritarian quasi-secularism means the only organized opposition is fundamentalist, like in Central Asia like Tajikia, Uzbekia, Kyrgyzia, Afghanistan, Parts of Pakistan, etc, or the India my parents grew up in during the 1980s. Sheikh Hasina (literally) based her public persona on Indira Gandhi. All the Desis on HN know what that implies. Sheikh Hasina is a left-leaning autocratic. She protects the Hindu, Christian, and Buddhist minority, but her authoritarianism against the religious Islamic community of Bangladesh (plus Khalida Zia's and moreso Shaibur Rahman's Pakistani funded bullshit) means the only organized opposition are non-secular. As a Koshur-Hindu American, Hasina (and her enabler across the border) are playing with fire. Bangladesh has strong institutions , diaspora, and economic relations (most factories in WB moved to BD because of bad policies and the FTA). Hasina is squandering them because of her childhood traumas. Please please please become a Indonesia instead of a Myanmar
trompetenaccoun 2y ago
Independent of points for or against their rule, the ageist argument makes little sense. 25 year olds are generally politically naive and easily manipulated. The average person in their twenties has no idea about economics, geopolitics or other such topics that are important to understand for running a country. When you look at uprisings against ancient leaders in countries with very young populations, they regularly end up even worse then before, sadly. Take Sudan as an example.
- Karrot_Kream 2y ago
  If that's the lens you're looking at, the majority of uprisings in history have ended up worse than they started. Bangladesh is struggling with a democracy that has degraded into authoritarian gerontocracy. It's not as simple as young people dumb old people experienced, there's a lot of issues involved.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    ^^^ this. Revolutions turn into civil wars. We forget but this is the sad reality. This doesn't mean the students in Gulistan Maidan are wrong, but "Allah, Suriya, y Bashar" and the converse means a 15 year civil war like in Syria or 15 miles away from Chittagong in Myanmar (aka Asian Syria/Libya) Khuda ki kasm - please walk off this brink Bangladesh (if someone Hasina adjacent is reading).
- abdullahkhalids 2y ago
  GP didn't say that 25 years should become the elected leaders. But Sheikh Hasina (the current PM since 2008) was the leader of the opposition in 1986 at 39 years old [1], and then first became PM in 1996 at 49 years old. The ones who were PM from 1986 to today were all born in the 1940s [2]. Same is the case in Pakistan. Every prime minister since 1988 was born in the 40s or early 50s [3]. India's PMs have, on the other hand, been from even an older generation [4]. This post-independence generation captured all the political power in their 40s, and refuse to give it up 40 years later. Is it not reasonable to demand that the PM and Cabinet today are largely in their 40s? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Bangladesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Ban... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Pak... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Ind...
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> agree that Sheikh Hasina is extremely authoritarian and corrupt dictator but imo JeI are the actual fascists The challenge of escalating partisanship is self-reïnforcing polarisation. The worse the leadership, the worse the opposition. The operant question, thus, is not who is good but who is less evil, in the hope that this ratchet, a few times turned, yields goodness.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  I might be a few beers in, but I don't quite understand your thesis. Politics in developing countries is a business, not ideological. Ain't no good guys - only bad guys. Everyone's in on making enough out of the grift to emigrate to the US or the UK (just like Sheikh Hasina and her opponent Khalida Zia's children)
  - thisislife2 2y ago
    > Politics in developing countries is a business, not ideological. What a joke! Imperialism flourished due to corporates being allowed to own their own private armies. The US is the best example of a country that exists for, and is run by corporates - and that happened because the older European powers clamped down on corporates, and they fled to the US.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > that happened because the older European powers clamped down on corporates, and they fled to the US This comment is a lot of nonsense, but this takes the cake. America has always had more powerful private interests than Europe.
rayiner 2y ago
That’s a terrible idea and would set Bangladesh back generations. Hasina is authoritarian, but Bangladeshis need someone like her to run such a disorderly population. She’s not Lee Kuan Yew, but she’s the best in that direction Bangladesh can hope for. And a third-rate copy of LKY is a hell of a lot better than whatever Islamic socialist would replace her.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  Idk why you're downvoted, but that aside I'm not sure about your thesis. It's kinda tough following Desi politics tbh - you want to be honest about ideals, but the reality is everyone in the home country is "Chust". Idk, if Sheikh Hasina was a LKY or even a Park Cheung He then the protests seen the past week wouldn't have happened. I guess the BAP is now facing the Zhao question (or Indira in Tughlabad Distict in 1976) - to shoot or not shoot. Either way India, China, Russia, and the Gulf will continue to give her and the BAP sanction relief because she's built strong relations with everyone. I'm not Muslim so I automatically lean more towards Hasina (Zia's enabling of the JeI is a dealbreaker and would automatically result in a civil war or even Indian intervention if she became PM), but if she decided to remain quasi-democratic she cannot find a middle ground. Either she becomes a full blown authoritarian or she has to cede power. A Hybrid Regime is inherently unstable.
- Karrot_Kream 2y ago
  I don't disagree given the political situation in Bangladesh right now but if Hasina were LKY or even Erdogan this wouldn't be happening. The situation is as it is because Hasina couldn't govern it.
thisislife2 2y ago
> It's a handful of elite 70 year olds who have been running a country where the median age is 25 and are ruining it due to their own personal drama from the 70s and 80s. Really? Are you going to totally ignore that it is those very 25+ years old that gave the current premiere of Bangladesh her massive majority? (See also https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/88356/why-are-maximum-age-restrictions-so-rare https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/88356/why-are-m... ). > That said, I agree with you that Hasina's authoritarianism needs to end. ... Beware of what you wish for! It's all nice and easy to harp at "undemocratic" and "authoritarianism". But understand the political context and history of Bangladesh before passing such blanket judgement. The reality of Bangladesh politics is: 1. Political violence is a fact there - Mrs. Hasina's father, a hugely popular leader, was assassinated and 18 members of her family, including her 10-year-old brother, and relatives were massacred. She had to seek refuge abroad to survive. 2. Bangladesh has also seen many military coups. 3. Some opposition parties of Bangladesh are backed by the military. 4. Some of the opposition lean towards religious fundamentalism and, as you pointed out, also associate with extremist groups. 5. Foreign powers - USA (and other western countries acting in cohort with the US), China and India - often interfere in Bangladesh's internal affairs. (Source: https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/80654/ https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/80654/ ) Being a young democracy, amidst such a political environment necessarily requires an authoritarian streak in a politician to survive and to nurture a secular democracy. As an indian, I genuinely admire her commitment to create a democracy in an Islamic republic that is easily prone to religious fundamentalism and sectarianism - sometimes she reminds me of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who did the same with Turkiye. (Remember that Bangladesh is one of the few islamic Republics that has actually committed to democratic political values). ----- All that said, it is very clear that the current protests were very poorly handled and will be politically damaging to her, and could be a turning point in Bangladesh politics. Whether it will be good for Bangladesh totally depends on how her government handles these protest. Even if the matter is sub-judice, and being examined by the Bangladesh Supreme Court, the government should have engaged more deeply with the protestors and anticipated the political violence.

Karrot_Kream 2y ago

Yeah I think "fascist" is too much for any actor not JeI but authoritarian is right. They've cut off Internet and telecom access after all, a dangerous game given how physically close they are to West Bengal.

BadHumans 2y ago
> Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Source: Wikipedia This sounds like the very definition of fascism to me.
- alan-hn 2y ago
  Many people want to either tiptoe around or flat out ignore the far right leanings of fascism to avoid what it says about the US
  - candiodari 2y ago
    [dead]
  - arrowsmith 2y ago
    "Leanings"?
    - alan-hn 2y ago
      You're right, that's too gentle of phrasing. Fascism is a 100% far right ideology. Please excuse my Ameribrain, I'm continuously bathed in conservative capitalist and neoliberal propaganda
- Karrot_Kream 2y ago
  Which part sounds like fascism? The Awami League is ideologically a center-left party, it's not far right. The quota system that's being protested offers employment quotas to descendants of revolutionaries and minorities. It was the party that founded Bangladesh. Protests are occurring because of the corruption and joblessness that results from these quotas and because the law was overturned earlier but reinstated. Moreover there's no belief in a natural social hierarchy or belief in subordination to the State. If anything the Awami League has historically claimed to champion minorities in the country like Hindus instead of championing Muslim identities like JeI. There's no concept of regimemting society at all by the Awami League, again that's more JeI's domain with its belief in Sharia. Awami League is authoritarian and corrupt yes but not fascist. The Middle East has plenty of authoritarian dictatorships that engage in varying levels of human rights abuses but that does not make them fascist countries. I'm sorry but your comment just comes off as really uniformed about Bdesh and South Asian politics.
  - BadHumans 2y ago
    I'm very uninformed about Bangladeshi and South Asian politics but yes the violent suppression of protests and killing of protestors are the parts that sound a bit fascist to me.
    - Karrot_Kream 2y ago
      Look I realize on lefty parts of the internet that fascism has colloquially become the same as authoritarianism but they are not the same thing. Fascist movements are usually authoritarian but not all authoritarian regimes are fascist. It's an especially bad lens when you look outside the West because the second and third world has had plenty of trouble with left authoritarian regimes and comparatively less trouble with fascism and authoritarian right regimes.
      - alephnerd 2y ago
        ^^^ THIS If you're part of the minority Hindu and Christian community in Bangladesh you support Hasina, because the opposition made a coalition deal with hard-core Islamists (JeI) who are supporting the gold digger wife of the former (1980s) Military Dictator who was a puppet (like every other politician in Bangladesh sadly) This does NOT mean Hasina is good. Anything but. Authoritarian quasi-secularism means the only organized opposition is fundamentalist, like in Central Asia like Tajikia, Uzbekia, Kyrgyzia, Afghanistan, Parts of Pakistan, etc, or the India my parents grew up in during the 1980s. Sheikh Hasina (literally) based her public persona on Indira Gandhi. All the Desis on HN know what that implies. Sheikh Hasina is a left-leaning autocratic. She protects the Hindu, Christian, and Buddhist minority, but her authoritarianism against the religious Islamic community of Bangladesh (plus Khalida Zia's and moreso Shaibur Rahman's Pakistani funded bullshit) means the only organized opposition are non-secular. As a Koshur-Hindu American, Hasina (and her enabler across the border) are playing with fire. Bangladesh has strong institutions , diaspora, and economic relations (most factories in WB moved to BD because of bad policies and the FTA). Hasina is squandering them because of her childhood traumas. Please please please become a Indonesia instead of a Myanmar

trompetenaccoun 2y ago

Independent of points for or against their rule, the ageist argument makes little sense. 25 year olds are generally politically naive and easily manipulated. The average person in their twenties has no idea about economics, geopolitics or other such topics that are important to understand for running a country. When you look at uprisings against ancient leaders in countries with very young populations, they regularly end up even worse then before, sadly. Take Sudan as an example.

Karrot_Kream 2y ago
If that's the lens you're looking at, the majority of uprisings in history have ended up worse than they started. Bangladesh is struggling with a democracy that has degraded into authoritarian gerontocracy. It's not as simple as young people dumb old people experienced, there's a lot of issues involved.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  ^^^ this. Revolutions turn into civil wars. We forget but this is the sad reality. This doesn't mean the students in Gulistan Maidan are wrong, but "Allah, Suriya, y Bashar" and the converse means a 15 year civil war like in Syria or 15 miles away from Chittagong in Myanmar (aka Asian Syria/Libya) Khuda ki kasm - please walk off this brink Bangladesh (if someone Hasina adjacent is reading).
abdullahkhalids 2y ago
GP didn't say that 25 years should become the elected leaders. But Sheikh Hasina (the current PM since 2008) was the leader of the opposition in 1986 at 39 years old [1], and then first became PM in 1996 at 49 years old. The ones who were PM from 1986 to today were all born in the 1940s [2]. Same is the case in Pakistan. Every prime minister since 1988 was born in the 40s or early 50s [3]. India's PMs have, on the other hand, been from even an older generation [4]. This post-independence generation captured all the political power in their 40s, and refuse to give it up 40 years later. Is it not reasonable to demand that the PM and Cabinet today are largely in their 40s? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Hasina [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Bangladesh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Ban... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Pak... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Ind...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> agree that Sheikh Hasina is extremely authoritarian and corrupt dictator but imo JeI are the actual fascists The challenge of escalating partisanship is self-reïnforcing polarisation. The worse the leadership, the worse the opposition. The operant question, thus, is not who is good but who is less evil, in the hope that this ratchet, a few times turned, yields goodness.

alephnerd 2y ago
I might be a few beers in, but I don't quite understand your thesis. Politics in developing countries is a business, not ideological. Ain't no good guys - only bad guys. Everyone's in on making enough out of the grift to emigrate to the US or the UK (just like Sheikh Hasina and her opponent Khalida Zia's children)
- thisislife2 2y ago
  > Politics in developing countries is a business, not ideological. What a joke! Imperialism flourished due to corporates being allowed to own their own private armies. The US is the best example of a country that exists for, and is run by corporates - and that happened because the older European powers clamped down on corporates, and they fled to the US.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > that happened because the older European powers clamped down on corporates, and they fled to the US This comment is a lot of nonsense, but this takes the cake. America has always had more powerful private interests than Europe.

rayiner 2y ago

That’s a terrible idea and would set Bangladesh back generations. Hasina is authoritarian, but Bangladeshis need someone like her to run such a disorderly population. She’s not Lee Kuan Yew, but she’s the best in that direction Bangladesh can hope for. And a third-rate copy of LKY is a hell of a lot better than whatever Islamic socialist would replace her.

alephnerd 2y ago
Idk why you're downvoted, but that aside I'm not sure about your thesis. It's kinda tough following Desi politics tbh - you want to be honest about ideals, but the reality is everyone in the home country is "Chust". Idk, if Sheikh Hasina was a LKY or even a Park Cheung He then the protests seen the past week wouldn't have happened. I guess the BAP is now facing the Zhao question (or Indira in Tughlabad Distict in 1976) - to shoot or not shoot. Either way India, China, Russia, and the Gulf will continue to give her and the BAP sanction relief because she's built strong relations with everyone. I'm not Muslim so I automatically lean more towards Hasina (Zia's enabling of the JeI is a dealbreaker and would automatically result in a civil war or even Indian intervention if she became PM), but if she decided to remain quasi-democratic she cannot find a middle ground. Either she becomes a full blown authoritarian or she has to cede power. A Hybrid Regime is inherently unstable.
Karrot_Kream 2y ago
I don't disagree given the political situation in Bangladesh right now but if Hasina were LKY or even Erdogan this wouldn't be happening. The situation is as it is because Hasina couldn't govern it.

thisislife2 2y ago

> It's a handful of elite 70 year olds who have been running a country where the median age is 25 and are ruining it due to their own personal drama from the 70s and 80s. Really? Are you going to totally ignore that it is those very 25+ years old that gave the current premiere of Bangladesh her massive majority? (See also https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/88356/why-are-maximum-age-restrictions-so-rare https://politics.stackexchange.com/questions/88356/why-are-m... ). > That said, I agree with you that Hasina's authoritarianism needs to end. ... Beware of what you wish for! It's all nice and easy to harp at "undemocratic" and "authoritarianism". But understand the political context and history of Bangladesh before passing such blanket judgement. The reality of Bangladesh politics is: 1. Political violence is a fact there - Mrs. Hasina's father, a hugely popular leader, was assassinated and 18 members of her family, including her 10-year-old brother, and relatives were massacred. She had to seek refuge abroad to survive. 2. Bangladesh has also seen many military coups. 3. Some opposition parties of Bangladesh are backed by the military. 4. Some of the opposition lean towards religious fundamentalism and, as you pointed out, also associate with extremist groups. 5. Foreign powers - USA (and other western countries acting in cohort with the US), China and India - often interfere in Bangladesh's internal affairs. (Source: https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/80654/ https://politics.stackexchange.com/a/80654/ ) Being a young democracy, amidst such a political environment necessarily requires an authoritarian streak in a politician to survive and to nurture a secular democracy. As an indian, I genuinely admire her commitment to create a democracy in an Islamic republic that is easily prone to religious fundamentalism and sectarianism - sometimes she reminds me of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, who did the same with Turkiye. (Remember that Bangladesh is one of the few islamic Republics that has actually committed to democratic political values). ----- All that said, it is very clear that the current protests were very poorly handled and will be politically damaging to her, and could be a turning point in Bangladesh politics. Whether it will be good for Bangladesh totally depends on how her government handles these protest. Even if the matter is sub-judice, and being examined by the Bangladesh Supreme Court, the government should have engaged more deeply with the protestors and anticipated the political violence.