6 ms·
wow, why do lifts require an OS?
by shoebham 2y ago
wow, why do lifts require an OS?
- warkdarrior 2y agoHow else are you going to update your grocery list while operating the lift?
- kulikalov 2y agothe question is - why lifts require windows?
- rudasn 2y agoWell, how else is the operator supposed to see outside?
- Bluestein 2y agoHeh ...
- Tempat 2y agoThe question is, why do lifts require Crowdstrike?
- nmz 2y agoI mean... the beginning of mission impossible 1 should tell you.
- freehorse 2y agoThe question is, why do lifts require internet connection on top of the rest.
- richev 2y agoIn my office, when we swipe our entry cards at the security gates, a screen at the gate tells us which lift to take based on the floor we work on, and sets the lift to go to that floor. It's all connected.
- _heimdall 2y agoIn the context of a diesel repair shop, he likely was referring to fork lifts or vehicle lifts rather than elevators.
- em3rgent0rdr 2y agoThis doesn't require an internet, just a LAN.
- Ekaros 2y agoRemote monitoring and maintenance. Predictive maintenance, monitor certain parameters of operation and get maintenance done before lift stops operating.
- Arch-TK 2y agoIt's a car lift. Not only would it be irresponsible to rely on a computer to tell you when you should maintain it, as some inspections can only be done visually, it seems totally pointless as most inspections need to be done manually. Get a reminder on your calendar to do a thorough inspection once a day/week (whatever is appropriate) and train your employees what to look for every time it's used. At the end of the day, a car lift on locks is not going to fail unless there's a weakness in the metal structure, no computer is going to tell you about this unless there's a really expensive sensor network and I highly doubt any of the car lifts in question have such a sensor network. Moreover, even if they did have such a sensor network, why are these machines able to call out to the internet?
- morning-coffee 2y agoThese requirements can be met by making the lift's systems and data observable, which is a uni-directional flow of information from the lift to the outside world. Making the lift's operation modifiable from the outside world is not required to have it be observable.
- Ekaros 2y agoSome idiot with college degree in office no-where near the place sees that we have these PCs here. And then they go over compliance list and mandate this is needed. Now go install it and the network there...
- gtirloni 2y agoOr they want to protect their Windows-operated lifts from very real and life threatening events like an attacker jumping from host to host until they are able to lock the lifts and put people lives at risk or cause major inconveniences. Not all security is done by stupid people. Crowdstrike messed up in many ways. It doesn't make the company that trusted them stupid for what they were trying to achieve.
- Arch-TK 2y agoWhy are the lifts networked or on a network which can route to the internet? This is a car lift. It really doesn't need a computer to begin with. I've never seen one with a computer. WTF?
- gtirloni 2y agoFor the same reason people want to automate their homes, or the industries run with lots of robots, etc: because it increases productivity. The repair shop could be monitoring for usage, for adequate performance of hydraulics, long-term performance statistics, some 3rd-party gets notified to fix it before it's totally unusable, etc. I have a friend that is a car mechanic. The amount of automation he works with is fascinating. Sure, lifts and whatnot should be in a separate network, etc, but even banks and federal agencies screw up network security routinely. Expecting top-tier security posture from repair shops is unrealistic. So yes, they will install a security agent on their Windows machines because it looks like a good idea (it really is) without having the faintest clue about all the implications. C'est la vie.
- Arch-TK 2y agoBut what are you automating? It's a car lift, you need to be standing next to it to safely operate it. You can't remotely move it, it's too dangerous. Most of the things which can go wrong with a car lift require a physical inspection and for things like hydraulic pressure you can just put a dial indicator which can be inspected by the user. Heck, you can even put electronic safety interlocks without needing an internet connection. There are lots of difficult problems when it comes to car repair, but cloud lift monitoring is not something I've ever heard anyone ask for. The things you're describing are all salesman sales-pitch tactics, they're random shit which sound good if you're trying to sell a product, but they're all stuff nobody actually uses once they have the product. It's like a six in one shoe horn. It has a screw driver, flash light, ruler, bottle opener, and letter opener. If you're just looking at two numbers and you see regular shoe horn £5, six in one shoe horn £10 then you might blindly think you're getting more for your money. But at the end of the day, I find it highly unlikely you'll ever use it for anything other than to put tight shoes on.
- throwaway48476 2y agoThe same reason everyone just uses a microcontroller on everything. It's like a universal glue and you can develop in the same environment you ship. Makes it easy.
- thedrbrian 2y agoWhy do lathes , cranes and laser alignment systems need a new copy of windows?
- Kirth 2y agoand why do they run spyware?
- recursive 2y agoProbably because some fraction of lift manufacturer's customer base has a compliance checklist requiring it.
- olyjohn 2y agoLathes probably have PCs connected to them to control them, and do CNC stuff (he did say the controllers). Laser alignment machines all have PCs connected to them these days. The cranes and lifts though... I've never heard of them being networked or controlled by a computer. Usually it's a couple buttons connected to the motors and that's it. But maybe they have some monitoring systems in them?
- p_l 2y agoOff then top of my head, based on limited experience in industrial automation: - maintenance monitoring data shipping to centralised locations - computer based HMI system - there might be good old manual control but it might require unreasonable amounts of extra work per work order - Centralised control system - instead of using panel specific to lift, you might be controlling bunch of tools from common panel - integration with other tools, starting from things as simple as pulling up manufacturers' service manual to check for details to doing things like automatically raising the lift to position appropriate for work order involving other (possibly also automated) tools with adjustments based on the vehicle you're lifting There could be more.
- Prickle 2y agoVery likely they use a manufacturing execution system like Dassault's DELMIA or Siemens MES. These systems are intended to allow local control of a factory, or cloud based global control of manufacturing. They can connect to individual PLC(Programmable Logic Controller) which handles the actual equipment. They connect to a LAN network, or to the internet. So they naturally need some form of security. They could use Windows Server, Redhat Linux, etc. but they need some form of security. Which is how controller would be affected. Usually you can just set them to manual though...
- morning-coffee 2y agoI think the same question can be asked for why lots of equipment seemingly requires an OS. My take is that these products went through a phase of trying to differentiate themselves from competitors and so added convenience features that were easier to implement with a general purpose computer and some VB script rather than focusing on the simplest most reliable way to implement their required state machines. It's essentially convenience to the implementors at the expense of reliability of the end result.
- mihaaly 2y agoMy life went sideways when organizations I worked for all started to make products solely for selling and not for using those. If the product was useful for something, that was the side effect of being sellable. Not the goal.
- chongli 2y agoWorse is Better has eaten the world. The philosophy of building things properly with careful, bespoke, minimalist designs has been totally destroyed by a race to the bottom. Grab it off the shelf, duct tape together a barely-working MVP, and ship it. Now we are reaping what we sowed.
- pishpash 2y agoThat's what you get for outsourcing to some generic shop with no domain expertise who implements to a spec for the lowest dollar.
- freehorse 2y agoBecause we live deep into the internet of shit era.