5 ms·

I remember when I first went to jail in 2013, every month paying for a $20 phone card and getting to make a 25 minute "long-distance" call. I couldn't believe t

I remember when I first went to jail in 2013, every month paying for a $20 phone card and getting to make a 25 minute "long-distance" call. I couldn't believe that this was legal, and even if it was, I was in disbelief that morally, this was allowed to go on. There are so many other similarities in corrections that my family and I would unfortunately go on to discover over the years, things that until you experience them firsthand, either by yourself or a loved one being incarcerated, that you likely wouldn't believe.

qingcharles 2y ago
Amen, brother. I was an advocate for prison reform before getting locked up, but once you're inside and you find out how truly insane everything is, you realize that jails and prisons are where decency and kindness go to die. I'm in a Zoom conference with the federal court in 45 mins trying to get two constitutional violations at the biggest jail in the country fixed, but obviously the government's lawyers are maintaining that this jail is too big to fix the problems. The judge's line is that if the smallest jails in the country can not violate the rights of the detainees, why can't the biggest? The government is adamant that their size protects them from having to say, provide a working mail system.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  It is Teams, not Zoom. I'm in the conference with the federal judge and the government lawyers right now. Currently they are maintaining their stance that they are unwilling to fix constitutional violations. They'd rather go to trial and lose and pay my lawyer the 7 figure sum in fees he's owed, than agree to fix the conditions. This is the sort of people that run our jails and prisons -- and spend your tax dollars.
  - basil-rash 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    OK, settled the case. Luckily my lawyer was working pro bono as he racked up over $600K in billable hours I understand. I'm waiting for an email back to see if I can discuss it or whether it is NDA'd lol. The judge said that she had never seen any institution so stubbornly against fixing what they were legally entitled to fix.
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      "Defendant and Plaintiff further agree that if asked about the terms and contents of this Agreement, they will respond only by stating that “the matter has been resolved” or “I cannot comment” without any further elaboration." They tried to insert this clause, but my lawyer had it excised.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Why lift a finger to do anything if you can just spend taxpayers' dollars on a settlement?
      - qingcharles 2y ago
        That's what the judge said. She said normally they'd either throw money at it, or fix the problem. In this case they were willing to do neither. Eventually got them to make a tiny policy change and a statement that they will uphold the change with retraining, and I got $3250.
        lesuorac 2y ago
        What happens if they don't?
        LoganDark 2y ago
        Your lawyer made $600K and you got $3250?
        ang_cire 2y ago
        No, the lawyer was working pro bono. 600k is what those hours would have cost.
- mywittyname 2y ago
  You're fighting the good fight.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  'It looks like your client Bob is no longer housed in this facility and therefore no longer has standing. Case dismissed. If you can find someone else willing to initiate a case, you can start the year long process that got you here again. Of course, if they happen to get transferred to a new institution should their case make it this far in the process that case will also be dismissed for lack of standing.' -- The US Justice System
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    This ^^ person knows their law. Yes, my case was (probably, maybe) barred from injunctive relief because you can't sue to fix problems at a jail or prison if they release you[0]. Some people have been prematurely released just to activate this option. You can (sometimes) get declaratory judgment though, which at least declares you a winner and you can then pass the baton to the guy behind you who is still behind bars and use that as a stick to hit the institution over the head with. And sometimes you can also get monetary damages too, which can be another stick to hit them with. [0] some exceptions apply if the case is likely to repeat itself, but this argument is very, very hard to muster
    - ang_cire 2y ago
      Is it not possible to class-action the whole prison population at that location? For large prisons, is that still not enough people? Or does class-action not apply to this kind of violation at all?
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        Feel however you want but whatever the judge says goes. If they want to dismiss a case for a lack of standing they will. Law doesn't work like cryptocurrencies. Two different judges can see the same motions and make completely different judgements.
        prox 2y ago
        Not very good laws then innit? If you can read whatever you want as a judge.
diob 2y ago
This is why I believe felons / prisoners should be able to vote. Not allowing a significant portion of the population to vote leads to them being treated poorly.
- LocalH 2y ago
  Considering what this country was founded on, perhaps people without voting rights should also have zero tax liability in any way.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  It's worse than that. It allows politicians to disenfranchise the people they want to treat poorly. War on Drugs is the case in point. The entire system is abusive and corrupt, but most of the people with first-hand experience are automatically disenfranchised, so it has persisted for generations against all reason.
batch12 2y ago
I wonder what the requirements are for a prison telcom? Are their storage requirements so high as to require the fees or is there an opportunity to disrupt a business model for the right reasons for once?
7thaccount 2y ago
That John Oliver special on this blew my mind. It's just a moneymaking scam.
tyingq 2y ago
I'm guessing most of this is graft and kickbacks for city, county, and state officials at various levels. It will be interesting to watch how they react to this legislation trying to get their revenue streams back. They, of course, still have their other avenues, like commissary, mail, "e-messages", etc.

qingcharles 2y ago

Amen, brother. I was an advocate for prison reform before getting locked up, but once you're inside and you find out how truly insane everything is, you realize that jails and prisons are where decency and kindness go to die. I'm in a Zoom conference with the federal court in 45 mins trying to get two constitutional violations at the biggest jail in the country fixed, but obviously the government's lawyers are maintaining that this jail is too big to fix the problems. The judge's line is that if the smallest jails in the country can not violate the rights of the detainees, why can't the biggest? The government is adamant that their size protects them from having to say, provide a working mail system.

qingcharles 2y ago
It is Teams, not Zoom. I'm in the conference with the federal judge and the government lawyers right now. Currently they are maintaining their stance that they are unwilling to fix constitutional violations. They'd rather go to trial and lose and pay my lawyer the 7 figure sum in fees he's owed, than agree to fix the conditions. This is the sort of people that run our jails and prisons -- and spend your tax dollars.
- basil-rash 2y ago
  [flagged]
- qingcharles 2y ago
  OK, settled the case. Luckily my lawyer was working pro bono as he racked up over $600K in billable hours I understand. I'm waiting for an email back to see if I can discuss it or whether it is NDA'd lol. The judge said that she had never seen any institution so stubbornly against fixing what they were legally entitled to fix.
  - qingcharles 2y ago
    "Defendant and Plaintiff further agree that if asked about the terms and contents of this Agreement, they will respond only by stating that “the matter has been resolved” or “I cannot comment” without any further elaboration." They tried to insert this clause, but my lawyer had it excised.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Why lift a finger to do anything if you can just spend taxpayers' dollars on a settlement?
    - qingcharles 2y ago
      That's what the judge said. She said normally they'd either throw money at it, or fix the problem. In this case they were willing to do neither. Eventually got them to make a tiny policy change and a statement that they will uphold the change with retraining, and I got $3250.
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        What happens if they don't?
      - LoganDark 2y ago
        Your lawyer made $600K and you got $3250?
        ang_cire 2y ago
        No, the lawyer was working pro bono. 600k is what those hours would have cost.
mywittyname 2y ago
You're fighting the good fight.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
'It looks like your client Bob is no longer housed in this facility and therefore no longer has standing. Case dismissed. If you can find someone else willing to initiate a case, you can start the year long process that got you here again. Of course, if they happen to get transferred to a new institution should their case make it this far in the process that case will also be dismissed for lack of standing.' -- The US Justice System
- qingcharles 2y ago
  This ^^ person knows their law. Yes, my case was (probably, maybe) barred from injunctive relief because you can't sue to fix problems at a jail or prison if they release you[0]. Some people have been prematurely released just to activate this option. You can (sometimes) get declaratory judgment though, which at least declares you a winner and you can then pass the baton to the guy behind you who is still behind bars and use that as a stick to hit the institution over the head with. And sometimes you can also get monetary damages too, which can be another stick to hit them with. [0] some exceptions apply if the case is likely to repeat itself, but this argument is very, very hard to muster
  - ang_cire 2y ago
    Is it not possible to class-action the whole prison population at that location? For large prisons, is that still not enough people? Or does class-action not apply to this kind of violation at all?
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      Feel however you want but whatever the judge says goes. If they want to dismiss a case for a lack of standing they will. Law doesn't work like cryptocurrencies. Two different judges can see the same motions and make completely different judgements.
      - prox 2y ago
        Not very good laws then innit? If you can read whatever you want as a judge.

diob 2y ago

This is why I believe felons / prisoners should be able to vote. Not allowing a significant portion of the population to vote leads to them being treated poorly.

LocalH 2y ago
Considering what this country was founded on, perhaps people without voting rights should also have zero tax liability in any way.
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
It's worse than that. It allows politicians to disenfranchise the people they want to treat poorly. War on Drugs is the case in point. The entire system is abusive and corrupt, but most of the people with first-hand experience are automatically disenfranchised, so it has persisted for generations against all reason.

batch12 2y ago

I wonder what the requirements are for a prison telcom? Are their storage requirements so high as to require the fees or is there an opportunity to disrupt a business model for the right reasons for once?

7thaccount 2y ago

That John Oliver special on this blew my mind. It's just a moneymaking scam.

tyingq 2y ago

I'm guessing most of this is graft and kickbacks for city, county, and state officials at various levels. It will be interesting to watch how they react to this legislation trying to get their revenue streams back. They, of course, still have their other avenues, like commissary, mail, "e-messages", etc.