4 ms·

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” – Martin Luther Kin

by krapp 2y ago

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

marginalia_nu 2y ago
And that's why Socrates didn't drink the hemlock.
- adolph 2y ago
  And the Tootsie Pop Owl didn't bite
- krapp 2y ago
  You're free to interpret your relationship with your government as a suicide pact if it pleases you. Others are not obligated to drink the poison of obsequious virtue.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  The guy that was upset younger people were reading books instead of memorizing things, and believed that would make people dumb, and literally ruin the next generation of the world? Yeah maybe he wasn't infinitely wise on all things.
GeoAtreides 2y ago
Now, if we only had a test to distinguish between just and unjust laws.
- krapp 2y ago
  Is your argument that we must obey all laws at all times, because a definition of "justice" cannot be given with the rigor of a mathematical proof? How then can law itself exist, without a means of objective interpretation? And why obey laws at all if no test exists by which any law can be determined to be either just or unjust? You can find thousands of years of scholarship, philosophy, religion and legal doctrine on the matter, and most people seem capable of coming to at least a subjective conclusion on what is and isn't just, apart from what is and isn't legal.
  - GeoAtreides 2y ago
    For people protesting desegregation, the laws promoting desegregation were unjust. For me, personally, punishments like death penalty (and adjacent, maximum security prisons, like ADX Florence) are abhorrent. If I had superpowers, I would violently oppose them. I would literally dismantle ADX Florence brick by brick, if I could. I imagine some people reading this would be equally horrified, and, would also violently oppose me. The problem with protesting unjust laws is that these laws are just for other people. Coming to a personal conclusion on what laws are unjust is easy. Achieving consensus is impossible. Sometimes, even achieving majority is impossible (see, for reference, the Just Stop Oil guys who got 5 years in prison). I'm not saying not to resist unjust laws; far from it. I am saying that determining what is moral and what is not is one of the hardest philosophical problems there is. And that opposing can, in some cases, lead to violence and civil war.

by krapp 2y ago

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.” – Martin Luther King, Jr.

marginalia_nu 2y ago

And that's why Socrates didn't drink the hemlock.

adolph 2y ago
And the Tootsie Pop Owl didn't bite
krapp 2y ago
You're free to interpret your relationship with your government as a suicide pact if it pleases you. Others are not obligated to drink the poison of obsequious virtue.
mrguyorama 2y ago
The guy that was upset younger people were reading books instead of memorizing things, and believed that would make people dumb, and literally ruin the next generation of the world? Yeah maybe he wasn't infinitely wise on all things.

GeoAtreides 2y ago

Now, if we only had a test to distinguish between just and unjust laws.

krapp 2y ago
Is your argument that we must obey all laws at all times, because a definition of "justice" cannot be given with the rigor of a mathematical proof? How then can law itself exist, without a means of objective interpretation? And why obey laws at all if no test exists by which any law can be determined to be either just or unjust? You can find thousands of years of scholarship, philosophy, religion and legal doctrine on the matter, and most people seem capable of coming to at least a subjective conclusion on what is and isn't just, apart from what is and isn't legal.
- GeoAtreides 2y ago
  For people protesting desegregation, the laws promoting desegregation were unjust. For me, personally, punishments like death penalty (and adjacent, maximum security prisons, like ADX Florence) are abhorrent. If I had superpowers, I would violently oppose them. I would literally dismantle ADX Florence brick by brick, if I could. I imagine some people reading this would be equally horrified, and, would also violently oppose me. The problem with protesting unjust laws is that these laws are just for other people. Coming to a personal conclusion on what laws are unjust is easy. Achieving consensus is impossible. Sometimes, even achieving majority is impossible (see, for reference, the Just Stop Oil guys who got 5 years in prison). I'm not saying not to resist unjust laws; far from it. I am saying that determining what is moral and what is not is one of the hardest philosophical problems there is. And that opposing can, in some cases, lead to violence and civil war.