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And another type. Canadians with TN-1 status (and Mexicans with TN-2) will typically switch to an H-1B in order to apply for a greencard. I worked in the US for

by rll 14y ago

And another type. Canadians with TN-1 status (and Mexicans with TN-2) will typically switch to an H-1B in order to apply for a greencard. I worked in the US for about 8 years on TN-1 status, and then switched to an H-1B for the 6 months it took to go through the accelerated greencard process. The xenophobia also seems a little over the top on this issue. With the rather broken American education system, is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs?

maratd 14y ago
> With the rather broken American education system If the American education system is so broken, why do so many Canadians travel south to attend American colleges and universities? My wife certainly did, to get her law degree. > is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs? That isn't unbelievable at all. However, our immigration system, as broken as it is, serves a different purpose. The H-1B visa is meant to fill jobs that cannot be filled with domestic talent. Not jobs that can be filled with superior talent. A fine difference, but still a difference. Personally, I'm for eliminating all this visa nonsense and allowing anybody who wants to come here to do so. Then again, nobody asked me.
- pi18n 14y ago
  I also think the US education system is "broken" or close to it. Remember the recent polls saying 40% of Americans don't believe in evolution? Something is surely wrong with this picture. It is not until college level that the US performs better than other countries. And then (for the majority of people) you would need a scholarship to be able to go. K12 education has poor results and above that it is economically broken. e: I don't mean this as an attack, I just want to say I can see where the grandparent is coming from.
  - maratd 14y ago
    > Remember the recent polls saying 40% of Americans don't believe in evolution? Something is surely wrong with this picture. Yes. You actually believing that statistic. Seriously? > It is not until college level that the US performs better than other countries. That depends on how you define performance. If you define it by creative endeavors and behavior, I would say that's patently false. How is it that such a poorly educated populace produces the most vibrant culture and economy on the plant? Must be a miracle. > And then (for the majority of people) you would need a scholarship to be able to go. The overwhelming majority take out loans or work their way through. At times, parents help out. Occasionally scholarships pay some of the way. Very rarely does a scholarship cover the entire tuition.
    - jbooth 14y ago
      Why wouldn't he believe the statistic? It's a scientifically conducted poll. People answered their phone and said "Yes, I don't believe in evolution." You could make some arguments about culture vs education but I doubt those individuals are very educated, so it's an uphill battle for you. If someone says that the earth is 5,000 years old, you should take him at his word that he believes it.
    - pi18n 14y ago
      > Re: Statistics I do believe it. We have governors that publicly don't accept global warming as well. > Re: Education It's not the education but the market that creates "the most vibrant culture and economy". That's why some of those contributing to our culture and economy came to do so from abroad. > Re: Tuition My point is still that it is quite a large burden, whether or not one manages to delay or share the burden.
stdbrouw 14y ago
With "accelerated greencard process" do you simply mean the greencard process as it exists for people that are already employed in the US as opposed to the slower / more uncertain process for people that, for example, use the Diversity Lottery or that are employer-sponsored but not already in the US?
- rll 14y ago
  I am not sure how it works actually. I know the Labor Certification part was skipped entirely and I was put in some higher priority queue. Whatever they did, it took just under 7 months from start to finish.
ubernostrum 14y ago
I'm not sure that it's so much "xenophobia" as the fact that companies are pretty well-known to be abusing the H1-B process right now to avoid hiring qualified Americans. The advantages for employers are quite strong, not least because H1-B holders have far less mobility and are essentially at the mercy of the employer.
- rorrr 14y ago
  There are not nearly enough qualified and affordable senior level programmers in the country. We tried to hire them. Most candidates, that are senior on paper, do suck, they can't solve even medium complexity problems. Unless you have a crazy budget, you will spend a loooong time interviewing and going through one shitty candidate after another. We've interviewed close to 60 people, hired 3 (NYC). One of the 3 turned out to be a rat who delegated all the work to other developers, and had to be let go. In cities like NYC or SF, you need a very high salary to attract true talent.
  - dman 14y ago
    Whats the going rate for a competent senior dev in NYC/SF ?
    - rorrr 14y ago
      $150-200K among my friends. Actually, there's no upper limit. We've seen some crazy examples: http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engineer-3-5-million-to-turn-down-facebook-offer/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-enginee...
      - dsolomon 14y ago
        LOL If companies actually paid "$150-200K" there'd be an applicant line visible from space.
  - ubernostrum 14y ago
    In cities like NYC or SF, you need a very high salary to attract true talent. Worth pointing out that one of the big problems the industry has right now is the assumption that those are the only two places to put a tech company.

by rll 14y ago

maratd 14y ago

> With the rather broken American education system If the American education system is so broken, why do so many Canadians travel south to attend American colleges and universities? My wife certainly did, to get her law degree. > is it so unbelievable to people that there may actually be quite a few non-Americans that are simply better qualified for these jobs? That isn't unbelievable at all. However, our immigration system, as broken as it is, serves a different purpose. The H-1B visa is meant to fill jobs that cannot be filled with domestic talent. Not jobs that can be filled with superior talent. A fine difference, but still a difference. Personally, I'm for eliminating all this visa nonsense and allowing anybody who wants to come here to do so. Then again, nobody asked me.

pi18n 14y ago
I also think the US education system is "broken" or close to it. Remember the recent polls saying 40% of Americans don't believe in evolution? Something is surely wrong with this picture. It is not until college level that the US performs better than other countries. And then (for the majority of people) you would need a scholarship to be able to go. K12 education has poor results and above that it is economically broken. e: I don't mean this as an attack, I just want to say I can see where the grandparent is coming from.
- maratd 14y ago
  > Remember the recent polls saying 40% of Americans don't believe in evolution? Something is surely wrong with this picture. Yes. You actually believing that statistic. Seriously? > It is not until college level that the US performs better than other countries. That depends on how you define performance. If you define it by creative endeavors and behavior, I would say that's patently false. How is it that such a poorly educated populace produces the most vibrant culture and economy on the plant? Must be a miracle. > And then (for the majority of people) you would need a scholarship to be able to go. The overwhelming majority take out loans or work their way through. At times, parents help out. Occasionally scholarships pay some of the way. Very rarely does a scholarship cover the entire tuition.
  - jbooth 14y ago
    Why wouldn't he believe the statistic? It's a scientifically conducted poll. People answered their phone and said "Yes, I don't believe in evolution." You could make some arguments about culture vs education but I doubt those individuals are very educated, so it's an uphill battle for you. If someone says that the earth is 5,000 years old, you should take him at his word that he believes it.
  - pi18n 14y ago
    > Re: Statistics I do believe it. We have governors that publicly don't accept global warming as well. > Re: Education It's not the education but the market that creates "the most vibrant culture and economy". That's why some of those contributing to our culture and economy came to do so from abroad. > Re: Tuition My point is still that it is quite a large burden, whether or not one manages to delay or share the burden.

stdbrouw 14y ago

With "accelerated greencard process" do you simply mean the greencard process as it exists for people that are already employed in the US as opposed to the slower / more uncertain process for people that, for example, use the Diversity Lottery or that are employer-sponsored but not already in the US?

rll 14y ago
I am not sure how it works actually. I know the Labor Certification part was skipped entirely and I was put in some higher priority queue. Whatever they did, it took just under 7 months from start to finish.

ubernostrum 14y ago

I'm not sure that it's so much "xenophobia" as the fact that companies are pretty well-known to be abusing the H1-B process right now to avoid hiring qualified Americans. The advantages for employers are quite strong, not least because H1-B holders have far less mobility and are essentially at the mercy of the employer.

rorrr 14y ago
There are not nearly enough qualified and affordable senior level programmers in the country. We tried to hire them. Most candidates, that are senior on paper, do suck, they can't solve even medium complexity problems. Unless you have a crazy budget, you will spend a loooong time interviewing and going through one shitty candidate after another. We've interviewed close to 60 people, hired 3 (NYC). One of the 3 turned out to be a rat who delegated all the work to other developers, and had to be let go. In cities like NYC or SF, you need a very high salary to attract true talent.
- dman 14y ago
  Whats the going rate for a competent senior dev in NYC/SF ?
  - rorrr 14y ago
    $150-200K among my friends. Actually, there's no upper limit. We've seen some crazy examples: http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engineer-3-5-million-to-turn-down-facebook-offer/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-enginee...
    - dsolomon 14y ago
      LOL If companies actually paid "$150-200K" there'd be an applicant line visible from space.
- ubernostrum 14y ago
  In cities like NYC or SF, you need a very high salary to attract true talent. Worth pointing out that one of the big problems the industry has right now is the assumption that those are the only two places to put a tech company.