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Correct. And that game only ends when you step foot at the plane. I've been on a Ryanair flight where I was first fined for not printing the ticket beforehand

Correct. And that game only ends when you step foot at the plane. I've been on a Ryanair flight where I was first fined for not printing the ticket beforehand (of course printing it at the airport was already too late). Later, during onboarding, all passengers had to measure their trolley at the entrance to the plane in a very slim trolley frame that would not fit any regular trolley, only briefcases. My regularly sized trolley was too big to fit so I was fined again. all in all, fines cost around twice the price of the ticket. This was my first (and last) time flying Ryanair. Other passengers on that flight told me that they always get you once, but second time you know how to play the game...

inglor_cz 2y ago
Flying Ryanair definitely requires advanced preparations. That said, their traps are predictable and don't change much year-to-year. If you are aware of them and can prepare yourself, you can get really great bargains when flying around Europe.
closewith 2y ago
Ryanair is the world's safest airline and revolutionised travel within the EU. The majority of complaints are always like yours, not following the instructions and expecting flag carrier service from a discount airline.
- switch007 2y ago
  > revolutionised travel within the EU. In which ways? Apart from the low cost part and making flying utterly miserable now. It's not like he invented a new type of airplane IMO they just forced other airlines to cut product and service to the bone. A tight, business-savvy guy spent all his waking hours figuring out how to further screw passengers (and continues to do so) I do wonder if EU261 would have been required without low cost airlines. > expecting flag carrier service from a discount airline. Flag Carriers are all low-cost for short/mid haul now (and to an extent long-haul), as they've been dragged in to the gutter by Easyjet and Ryanair
  - closewith 2y ago
    > In which ways? Apart from the low cost part and making flying utterly miserable now. It's not like he invented a new type of airplane I can only assume that you weren't around for the transition. Intra-EU flights cost multiples of the average industrial week's wages before Ryanair. Air travel was inaccessible or rarely accessible to the vast majority of people in the continent. Ryanair single-handled brought the cost of European air fares down by two orders of magnitude and became the largest airline in the world by PAX to show for it. It absolutely revolutionised travel within Europe because it made point-to-point flights available to everyone, even the low-waged and students heading away for a city break with €20 return flights. > A tight, business-savvy guy spent all his waking hours figuring out how to further screw passengers (and continues to do so) And yet PAX love Ryanair, as evidenced by the ticket sales even though they love to complain. After all, for most people, the choice isn't between low-cost and full-service carriers. It's between low-cost carriers and not flying at all. > Flag Carriers are all low-cost for short/mid haul now (and to an extent long-haul), as they've been dragged in to the gutter by Easyjet and Ryanair Another perspective that's a lot closer to the truth is that Ryanair forced them to compete on price and actually serve the public which their flag purports to represent, but which the flag carriers completely ignored for most of their history.
    - Hnrobert42 2y ago
      Two orders of magnitude?! You are claiming that flights that now cost 100€ used to cost 10,000€?
      - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
        Not all of them but I have flown between destinations for 10€ shortly after Covid that were easily between 300-400€ on old-school airlines 15 years ago. While those are exceptions there are cases where budget airlines even with all the bells and whistles are still substantially cheaper than legacy carriers.
        switch007 2y ago
- septic-liqueur 2y ago
  This thread is about their dark patterns, and this is another example of dark pattern. You can blame me as much as you want for not reading thoroughly but still, it's an frustrating experience
  - closewith 2y ago
    Ryanair are absurdly upfront about their budget nature. They take the piss out of themselves constantly about it. While I agree they use dark patterns, your comment is not an example of them.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  "The instructions" are intentionally byzantine to make sure people make mistakes and then "rightfully" fleece them. It's not just a matter of "less service".
daemin 2y ago
I heard/read somewhere from some Stewardesses on those budget airlines that even though people get angry about being charged those additional costs, that they claim they will never fly again, that they actually continue flying repeatedly with the same budget airline. I think the term used was "hate flying", that you hate the extra charges you get but continue to fly because it is the cheapest.
- CaptainZapp 2y ago
  You can avoid all those charges by simply playing their game. Minimal luggage, no extra crap like speedy boarding or so, be prepared to forfait the money if you change plans (change of flight is usually horrendously expensive) and alway print / mobile app your boarding pass.
alexanderchr 2y ago
When you book the ticket they make it quite clear that normal sized trolley bags are not included in the cheapest fare. Most LCCs in Europe do something like this nowadays, even some legacies… Closing online checkin 2 hours before departure and then charging lots for airport checkin is crazy though.
arethuza 2y ago
I actually don't think they are that bad - you just have to appreciate that when they have a maximum bag size (or some other arbitrary limit) they are entirely serious about it. And if you do break their rules they will try and charge you - but it's pretty easy to work within their rules so not a huge problem if you do some basic preparation.
- septic-liqueur 2y ago
  Which is exactly the parent's point about "bureaucratic game that rewards successful completion with a cheap airline ticket"
  - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
    But it's not that bad. You need to do research about your travel destination anyways, like how are you going to get around, what places you want to visit, and some basic phrases in the destination language if relevant. Spending an extra 2-3 minutes checking how much stuff you can bring and whether you need any "dark pattern" options shouldn't be too hard in comparison but maybe I expect too much of the average traveller.
    - Lio 2y ago
      I don't expect to have to research the bag sizes every time I fly to the same destination just because Ryanair might have made them ever so slightly smaller.
      - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
        But they haven't. They only changed them once in the past decade, it's not like it's a thing that budget airlines pull every year. Changing them sucks but it's not really a problem now.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
golol 2y ago
Sorry but you just didn't inform yourself. The dimensions for the luggage are very clearly stated. Nowadays I would expect it to be common knowledge that when flying with a budget airline you have to pay attention to your luggage size and should have the boarding ticket QR code ready. For a small effort you get a small price.
- septic-liqueur 2y ago
  Correct, I did not read carefully which is why I wrote that they usually get you once and then you learn. But this whole thread is about dark patterns, and this is just an example of another one. And to be honest, the only way to not pay for your luggage is if you fly VERY light which is only applicable for certain flight scenarios.
  - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
    Not really, with a little discipline it can work for the vast majority of scenarios. 90% of my flights are backpack only and that includes travel where I needed to be dressed formally and travel with my SO. The only scenarios where it's actually necessary I see is if you need health equipment (which most people don't), if you have toddlers (which I'd argue you shouldn't be flying with anyways), and if you are moving a lot of stuff (where paying for luggage is still cheaper than shipping in many cases). It just requires a little planning which I think most people my generation and younger are getting used to.
c16 2y ago
The trick here is soft bags, or weekend bags. Hard bags with wheels always get checked, but soft weekend bags usually can get pushed in no problem. My partner had to pay because her bag fit "correctly" but the wheels did not. So - fair game to them - it didn't fit. Funnily enough, the charge was less than the online advertised price, so we still came out better off.
- septic-liqueur 2y ago
  > her bag fit "correctly" but the wheels did not This is just ridiculously mean...
ssl232 2y ago
> And that game only ends when you step foot at the plane. Actually, it ends only when you're off the plane at the destination. They continue to try to rinse you of your money on board with scratch cards (gambling), overpriced food and drink and duty free shopping, even making cabin announcements so you remove your headphones to listen thinking it's important.
- codelikeawolf 2y ago
  > Actually, it ends only when you're off the plane at the destination. Assuming you land at the right destination: https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2006/mar/30/theairlineindustry.travelnews https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2006/mar/30/theairlinei...

inglor_cz 2y ago

Flying Ryanair definitely requires advanced preparations. That said, their traps are predictable and don't change much year-to-year. If you are aware of them and can prepare yourself, you can get really great bargains when flying around Europe.

closewith 2y ago

Ryanair is the world's safest airline and revolutionised travel within the EU. The majority of complaints are always like yours, not following the instructions and expecting flag carrier service from a discount airline.

switch007 2y ago
> revolutionised travel within the EU. In which ways? Apart from the low cost part and making flying utterly miserable now. It's not like he invented a new type of airplane IMO they just forced other airlines to cut product and service to the bone. A tight, business-savvy guy spent all his waking hours figuring out how to further screw passengers (and continues to do so) I do wonder if EU261 would have been required without low cost airlines. > expecting flag carrier service from a discount airline. Flag Carriers are all low-cost for short/mid haul now (and to an extent long-haul), as they've been dragged in to the gutter by Easyjet and Ryanair
- closewith 2y ago
  > In which ways? Apart from the low cost part and making flying utterly miserable now. It's not like he invented a new type of airplane I can only assume that you weren't around for the transition. Intra-EU flights cost multiples of the average industrial week's wages before Ryanair. Air travel was inaccessible or rarely accessible to the vast majority of people in the continent. Ryanair single-handled brought the cost of European air fares down by two orders of magnitude and became the largest airline in the world by PAX to show for it. It absolutely revolutionised travel within Europe because it made point-to-point flights available to everyone, even the low-waged and students heading away for a city break with €20 return flights. > A tight, business-savvy guy spent all his waking hours figuring out how to further screw passengers (and continues to do so) And yet PAX love Ryanair, as evidenced by the ticket sales even though they love to complain. After all, for most people, the choice isn't between low-cost and full-service carriers. It's between low-cost carriers and not flying at all. > Flag Carriers are all low-cost for short/mid haul now (and to an extent long-haul), as they've been dragged in to the gutter by Easyjet and Ryanair Another perspective that's a lot closer to the truth is that Ryanair forced them to compete on price and actually serve the public which their flag purports to represent, but which the flag carriers completely ignored for most of their history.
  - Hnrobert42 2y ago
    Two orders of magnitude?! You are claiming that flights that now cost 100€ used to cost 10,000€?
    - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
      Not all of them but I have flown between destinations for 10€ shortly after Covid that were easily between 300-400€ on old-school airlines 15 years ago. While those are exceptions there are cases where budget airlines even with all the bells and whistles are still substantially cheaper than legacy carriers.
      - switch007 2y ago
septic-liqueur 2y ago
This thread is about their dark patterns, and this is another example of dark pattern. You can blame me as much as you want for not reading thoroughly but still, it's an frustrating experience
- closewith 2y ago
  Ryanair are absurdly upfront about their budget nature. They take the piss out of themselves constantly about it. While I agree they use dark patterns, your comment is not an example of them.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
"The instructions" are intentionally byzantine to make sure people make mistakes and then "rightfully" fleece them. It's not just a matter of "less service".

daemin 2y ago

I heard/read somewhere from some Stewardesses on those budget airlines that even though people get angry about being charged those additional costs, that they claim they will never fly again, that they actually continue flying repeatedly with the same budget airline. I think the term used was "hate flying", that you hate the extra charges you get but continue to fly because it is the cheapest.

CaptainZapp 2y ago
You can avoid all those charges by simply playing their game. Minimal luggage, no extra crap like speedy boarding or so, be prepared to forfait the money if you change plans (change of flight is usually horrendously expensive) and alway print / mobile app your boarding pass.

alexanderchr 2y ago

When you book the ticket they make it quite clear that normal sized trolley bags are not included in the cheapest fare. Most LCCs in Europe do something like this nowadays, even some legacies… Closing online checkin 2 hours before departure and then charging lots for airport checkin is crazy though.

arethuza 2y ago

I actually don't think they are that bad - you just have to appreciate that when they have a maximum bag size (or some other arbitrary limit) they are entirely serious about it. And if you do break their rules they will try and charge you - but it's pretty easy to work within their rules so not a huge problem if you do some basic preparation.

septic-liqueur 2y ago
Which is exactly the parent's point about "bureaucratic game that rewards successful completion with a cheap airline ticket"
- 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
  But it's not that bad. You need to do research about your travel destination anyways, like how are you going to get around, what places you want to visit, and some basic phrases in the destination language if relevant. Spending an extra 2-3 minutes checking how much stuff you can bring and whether you need any "dark pattern" options shouldn't be too hard in comparison but maybe I expect too much of the average traveller.
  - Lio 2y ago
    I don't expect to have to research the bag sizes every time I fly to the same destination just because Ryanair might have made them ever so slightly smaller.
    - 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
      But they haven't. They only changed them once in the past decade, it's not like it's a thing that budget airlines pull every year. Changing them sucks but it's not really a problem now.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

golol 2y ago

Sorry but you just didn't inform yourself. The dimensions for the luggage are very clearly stated. Nowadays I would expect it to be common knowledge that when flying with a budget airline you have to pay attention to your luggage size and should have the boarding ticket QR code ready. For a small effort you get a small price.

septic-liqueur 2y ago
Correct, I did not read carefully which is why I wrote that they usually get you once and then you learn. But this whole thread is about dark patterns, and this is just an example of another one. And to be honest, the only way to not pay for your luggage is if you fly VERY light which is only applicable for certain flight scenarios.
- 76SlashDolphin 2y ago
  Not really, with a little discipline it can work for the vast majority of scenarios. 90% of my flights are backpack only and that includes travel where I needed to be dressed formally and travel with my SO. The only scenarios where it's actually necessary I see is if you need health equipment (which most people don't), if you have toddlers (which I'd argue you shouldn't be flying with anyways), and if you are moving a lot of stuff (where paying for luggage is still cheaper than shipping in many cases). It just requires a little planning which I think most people my generation and younger are getting used to.

c16 2y ago

The trick here is soft bags, or weekend bags. Hard bags with wheels always get checked, but soft weekend bags usually can get pushed in no problem. My partner had to pay because her bag fit "correctly" but the wheels did not. So - fair game to them - it didn't fit. Funnily enough, the charge was less than the online advertised price, so we still came out better off.

septic-liqueur 2y ago
> her bag fit "correctly" but the wheels did not This is just ridiculously mean...

ssl232 2y ago

> And that game only ends when you step foot at the plane. Actually, it ends only when you're off the plane at the destination. They continue to try to rinse you of your money on board with scratch cards (gambling), overpriced food and drink and duty free shopping, even making cabin announcements so you remove your headphones to listen thinking it's important.

codelikeawolf 2y ago
> Actually, it ends only when you're off the plane at the destination. Assuming you land at the right destination: https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2006/mar/30/theairlineindustry.travelnews https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2006/mar/30/theairlinei...