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Maybe it's time that critical systems switch to Linux. The major public clouds are already primarily running Linux. Emergency services, booking, and traditional

Maybe it's time that critical systems switch to Linux. The major public clouds are already primarily running Linux. Emergency services, booking, and traditional point-of-sale have no strong reason to run Windows. In the past 10 years, the technological capability differences between Windows and Linux have widened considerably, with Linux being the most advanced operating system in the world without question. Concerns about usability between Windows and Linux in the modern day are disingenuous at best and malicious at worst. There is no UX concern when everything runs off a webapp these days. Just use Linux. You will save money and time, and your system will be supported for many years, you won't be charged per E-Core, you won't suffer BSoDs in 2024. Red Hat is a trustworthy American company based out of Raleigh, NC, in case you have concerns of provenance. Really there's no downside. If you were building your own company you would base your tech stack on Linux and not Windows. Critical systems cannot go down; therefore they cannot run Windows. If they do, they are being mismanaged and run negligently. Management should have no issue finding Linux engineers, they are everywhere. I could make a killing right now as a consultant going from company to company and just swapping out Windows backends for Linux. And quite frankly I might just do that, literally starting right now.

DaoVeles 2y ago
All good points but Windows didnt win because it had the best tech or user interface. Merely the most developer support thus user numbers. Legacy momentum is an incredibly difficult thing to sway. It has taken Apple decades an potentially hundreds of billions of dollars of marketing and good will to carve out its share of the market. Linux doesn't have that despites its clear technical advantages. It is an incredibly frustrated battle akin to Sisyphus.
attentive 2y ago
oh, you think security won't mandate to run CS on linux. Granted it didn't down linux this time but nothing is stopping it.
- snotrockets 2y ago
  It’s not security, it’s compliance. The two are sometimes aligned, sometimes less so.
- chippiewill 2y ago
  Yeah, they definitely would mandate it. My work laptop is running Ubuntu, and corporate IT requires Symantec Antivirus to be running on it
- hrrsn 2y ago
  We've had production outages caused by Microsoft Defender our RHEL boxes :(
dist-epoch 2y ago
> Linux being the most advanced operating system in the world without question. Only if you don't need a GUI/Desktop.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  I rate Linux DE higher than I do windows and Mac desktop tbh. Better ergonomics, better user experience and less bloat.
  - blippitybleep 2y ago
    I could never get smooth scrolling to work on Linux in any mainstream web browser, most people don’t seem to see it, but I’m sensitive to things like that.
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      Imho that was somewhat true on x11 but on wayland I feel everything is much smoother. I am more a pgup/pgdown user though.
    - cjbillington 2y ago
      Like with a laptop trackpad? I'm smooth-scrolling through these comments right now, and don't remember when scrolling wasn't smooth by default on any trackpad.
      - blippitybleep 2y ago
        It’s smooth to a point, but not smooth like OS X is. It might have improved (I think I last tried desktop Linux a year ago). I do enjoy using Linux as my default headless OS.
    - rgreekguy 2y ago
      NOT SMOOTH SCROLLING!
  - commandersaki 2y ago
AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
I don't understand this sort of blindness? Linux fails all the time, with rather terrible nobody to root vulns because some idiot failed to use the right bounds check. Ye gods, XZ utils was barely a few months ago!
- smcin 2y ago
  You mean 'xz utils'
  - AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
    zx sounds better
- zik 2y ago
  But no damage actually ended up happening with the xz utils exploit. It didn't even get released because someone picked it up pre-release. Every system gets attacked, but I think your point shows that even with state-level attacks Linux handles it better than other platforms.
  - AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
    Hmm? It was released for two plus months? 5.6.0 and 5.6.1 I'd also say this wasn't a good example of 'linux handling it better': usually when a mess like this occurs on windows all the corps get a quiet tap on the shoulder that they need to immediately patch when MS releases it, then a few days later it hits the news. In XZ's case, the backdoor was published before the team knew about it, huge mess.
    - adrian17 2y ago
      You’re right that it went noticed for a long time, just one clarification > all the corps get a quiet tap on the shoulder that they need to immediately patch when MS releases it, then a few days later it hits the news AFAIK, distros were notified and released a patched version of xz like a week before it hit the news, so at least a lot of machines received it via automatic updates.
prmoustache 2y ago
Crowdstrike has a linux version. It is mandatory in our linux servers in my company so that is not the solution. I would say issue 1 is management/compliance forcing admins to install malwares like crowdstrike. But issue 1 is because of issue 2 which is about admins / app devs / users aren't smart enough to not have their machines compromised on a regular basis in the first place. And issue 2 is because issue 3 of the software industry not focusing on quality and making bug free software. All in all this should be mitigated by more diversity in OS, software and "said security solution". Standardization and monopolies works well until they don't and you get this kind of shit.
- fsflover 2y ago
  > Crowdstrike has a linux version But would it crash the OS?
  - baq 2y ago
    Why wouldn't it? This particular bug wouldn't, but another one...
  - AndriyKunitsyn 2y ago
    If it works the same way - absolutely.
  - TheFlash 2y ago
    Yes, the CS Falcon agent caused a kernel panic on RHEL about a month ago.
    - sterlind 2y ago
      and yet everyone is blaming Windows sigh. Windows actually runs a lot of drivers in user-mode, even GPU drivers. largely this is because third-party drivers were responsible for the vast majority of blue screens, but the users would blame Microsoft. which makes sense; Windows crashes so they blame Windows, but I doubt anyone blamed Linux for the kernel panic.
NexRebular 2y ago
> Maybe it's time that critical systems switch to Linux. I switched critical systems to illumos and BSD years ago and it's been smooth sailing ever since. Nowadays there really is no need to contribute to linux monoculturization whatsoever.
bdd8f1df777b 2y ago
I too want to see Linux more widely adopted, but it won't prevent this from happening. People will install corrupted kernel modules on Linux too for anti-virus purposes.
jsmith99 2y ago
Do Linux systems not crash if a third party kernel module crashes? Or was your comment sarcastic?
MatejKafka 2y ago
The discussed issue is not related to any meaningful difference between Windows and Linux – Crowdstrike used a kernel driver, apparently containing a serious bug, which took down the system, which is something any kernel driver can do, no matter which kernel you use. At least Windows have a well-developed framework for writing userspace drivers, unlike Linux. > Linux being the most advanced operating system in the world without question. Very strong and mostly unfounded claim; there are specific aspects where Linux is "more advanced", and others where Windows come out ahead (e.g. almost anything related to hardware-based security and virtualization). > your system will be supported for many years Windows Server 2008 was supported until earlier this year, longer than any RHEL release. > you won't suffer BSoDs in 2024 Until you install a shitty driver for a dubious (anti)malware service.
vbezhenar 2y ago
I suggest switching to macOS. They don't allow third-party kernel drivers which is already a big advantage over Windows or Linux.
- jve 2y ago
  Well, Microsoft tried to lock down its kernel with Windows Vista and then antivirus vendors cried that they won't be able to protect Windows, anticompetetive etc. https://www.computerworld.com/article/1642872/q-a-microsoft-exec-defends-company-in-vista-kernel-dispute.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/1642872/q-a-microsoft-... https://betanews.com/2006/10/18/mcafee-ms-failing-to-provide-code/ https://betanews.com/2006/10/18/mcafee-ms-failing-to-provide...
namtab00 2y ago
https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083

DaoVeles 2y ago

All good points but Windows didnt win because it had the best tech or user interface. Merely the most developer support thus user numbers. Legacy momentum is an incredibly difficult thing to sway. It has taken Apple decades an potentially hundreds of billions of dollars of marketing and good will to carve out its share of the market. Linux doesn't have that despites its clear technical advantages. It is an incredibly frustrated battle akin to Sisyphus.

attentive 2y ago

oh, you think security won't mandate to run CS on linux. Granted it didn't down linux this time but nothing is stopping it.

snotrockets 2y ago
It’s not security, it’s compliance. The two are sometimes aligned, sometimes less so.
chippiewill 2y ago
Yeah, they definitely would mandate it. My work laptop is running Ubuntu, and corporate IT requires Symantec Antivirus to be running on it
hrrsn 2y ago
We've had production outages caused by Microsoft Defender our RHEL boxes :(

dist-epoch 2y ago

> Linux being the most advanced operating system in the world without question. Only if you don't need a GUI/Desktop.

prmoustache 2y ago
I rate Linux DE higher than I do windows and Mac desktop tbh. Better ergonomics, better user experience and less bloat.
- blippitybleep 2y ago
  I could never get smooth scrolling to work on Linux in any mainstream web browser, most people don’t seem to see it, but I’m sensitive to things like that.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    Imho that was somewhat true on x11 but on wayland I feel everything is much smoother. I am more a pgup/pgdown user though.
  - cjbillington 2y ago
    Like with a laptop trackpad? I'm smooth-scrolling through these comments right now, and don't remember when scrolling wasn't smooth by default on any trackpad.
    - blippitybleep 2y ago
      It’s smooth to a point, but not smooth like OS X is. It might have improved (I think I last tried desktop Linux a year ago). I do enjoy using Linux as my default headless OS.
  - rgreekguy 2y ago
    NOT SMOOTH SCROLLING!
- commandersaki 2y ago

AdeptusAquinas 2y ago

I don't understand this sort of blindness? Linux fails all the time, with rather terrible nobody to root vulns because some idiot failed to use the right bounds check. Ye gods, XZ utils was barely a few months ago!

smcin 2y ago
You mean 'xz utils'
- AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
  zx sounds better
zik 2y ago
But no damage actually ended up happening with the xz utils exploit. It didn't even get released because someone picked it up pre-release. Every system gets attacked, but I think your point shows that even with state-level attacks Linux handles it better than other platforms.
- AdeptusAquinas 2y ago
  Hmm? It was released for two plus months? 5.6.0 and 5.6.1 I'd also say this wasn't a good example of 'linux handling it better': usually when a mess like this occurs on windows all the corps get a quiet tap on the shoulder that they need to immediately patch when MS releases it, then a few days later it hits the news. In XZ's case, the backdoor was published before the team knew about it, huge mess.
  - adrian17 2y ago
    You’re right that it went noticed for a long time, just one clarification > all the corps get a quiet tap on the shoulder that they need to immediately patch when MS releases it, then a few days later it hits the news AFAIK, distros were notified and released a patched version of xz like a week before it hit the news, so at least a lot of machines received it via automatic updates.

prmoustache 2y ago

Crowdstrike has a linux version. It is mandatory in our linux servers in my company so that is not the solution. I would say issue 1 is management/compliance forcing admins to install malwares like crowdstrike. But issue 1 is because of issue 2 which is about admins / app devs / users aren't smart enough to not have their machines compromised on a regular basis in the first place. And issue 2 is because issue 3 of the software industry not focusing on quality and making bug free software. All in all this should be mitigated by more diversity in OS, software and "said security solution". Standardization and monopolies works well until they don't and you get this kind of shit.

fsflover 2y ago
> Crowdstrike has a linux version But would it crash the OS?
- baq 2y ago
  Why wouldn't it? This particular bug wouldn't, but another one...
- AndriyKunitsyn 2y ago
  If it works the same way - absolutely.
- TheFlash 2y ago
  Yes, the CS Falcon agent caused a kernel panic on RHEL about a month ago.
  - sterlind 2y ago
    and yet everyone is blaming Windows sigh. Windows actually runs a lot of drivers in user-mode, even GPU drivers. largely this is because third-party drivers were responsible for the vast majority of blue screens, but the users would blame Microsoft. which makes sense; Windows crashes so they blame Windows, but I doubt anyone blamed Linux for the kernel panic.

NexRebular 2y ago

> Maybe it's time that critical systems switch to Linux. I switched critical systems to illumos and BSD years ago and it's been smooth sailing ever since. Nowadays there really is no need to contribute to linux monoculturization whatsoever.

bdd8f1df777b 2y ago

I too want to see Linux more widely adopted, but it won't prevent this from happening. People will install corrupted kernel modules on Linux too for anti-virus purposes.

jsmith99 2y ago

Do Linux systems not crash if a third party kernel module crashes? Or was your comment sarcastic?

MatejKafka 2y ago

The discussed issue is not related to any meaningful difference between Windows and Linux – Crowdstrike used a kernel driver, apparently containing a serious bug, which took down the system, which is something any kernel driver can do, no matter which kernel you use. At least Windows have a well-developed framework for writing userspace drivers, unlike Linux. > Linux being the most advanced operating system in the world without question. Very strong and mostly unfounded claim; there are specific aspects where Linux is "more advanced", and others where Windows come out ahead (e.g. almost anything related to hardware-based security and virtualization). > your system will be supported for many years Windows Server 2008 was supported until earlier this year, longer than any RHEL release. > you won't suffer BSoDs in 2024 Until you install a shitty driver for a dubious (anti)malware service.

vbezhenar 2y ago

I suggest switching to macOS. They don't allow third-party kernel drivers which is already a big advantage over Windows or Linux.

jve 2y ago
Well, Microsoft tried to lock down its kernel with Windows Vista and then antivirus vendors cried that they won't be able to protect Windows, anticompetetive etc. https://www.computerworld.com/article/1642872/q-a-microsoft-exec-defends-company-in-vista-kernel-dispute.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/1642872/q-a-microsoft-... https://betanews.com/2006/10/18/mcafee-ms-failing-to-provide-code/ https://betanews.com/2006/10/18/mcafee-ms-failing-to-provide...

namtab00 2y ago

https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083 https://access.redhat.com/solutions/7068083