4 ms·

Police warn of thieves using WiFi-jamming tech to disarm cameras, alarms

27 points by Bluestein 2y ago

djohnston 2y ago
Alternative solution- DA could actually start prosecuting theft.
- anonym29 2y ago
  [flagged]
- netsharc 2y ago
  I DDG'ed "police shortage after covid" and these 2 articles support my belief that it's real: [1] [2]. [2] says hiring in 2023 is back up, but they're not out of the woods yet. It feels like the breakdown of social trust got worsened by the pandemic, and it has far-reaching effects. There's probably also emboldened many who've noticed we don't live in a police state, and getting away with crime (like surging an Apple Store with your friends) is actually possible. Of course people who resort to crime aren't the smartest to begin with, e.g. they don't know that stolen Apple devices will just be software-bricked... 1) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-hiring-crisis-rcna103600 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-... 2) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-hiring-us-increases-2023-years-decline-survey-shows-rcna149749 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-hiring-u... Edit to add: and the pandemic has also emboldened racist idiots like sibling comment saying "Stop being racist /s".
batch12 2y ago
I wonder what took them so long. Now, cameras I understand. Disarming an alarm via deauthing sounds implausible unless these panels are complete garbage. I have seen 'advanced' panels from alarm companies though that are simply an Android app +GPIO so I guess anything is possible...
- Bluestein 2y ago
  > Android app +GPIO Ouch, right? Whatever happened to embedded-systems, aeronautics-quality software?
  - p_j_w 2y ago
    Aeronautics quality software is expensive.
  - mouse_ 2y ago
    Turns out most people will pay the same price for white label Android hardware.
teamspirit 2y ago
Glad all my cameras are hard wired. I do need to look into off-site video recording though. Dream scenario: a home assistant automation that automatically uploads video when an alarm is triggered.
- Bluestein 2y ago
  ... and an AI-driven "warning shots" turret :)
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Many FOSS programs have been around for ages: https://zoneminder.com/ https://zoneminder.com/ Having everything hardwired has its own set of issues. It is often better to have both a working visible "decoy wifi" kit people will identify/jam with ease, and a covert "Casino" 8k pin-hole option people will not be able to scan. Just remember mantraps (bastion double fire-doors/cages etc.) are usually illegal in most jurisdictions, and crackheads are unhealthy for the pet crocodiles anyway. =3
  - teamspirit 2y ago
    Appreciate it. I’m currently using Frigate[0] as my nvr. Regarding the off-site upload, I just have to make time to do it. A decoy nest camera sounds like a good idea though! [0] https://frigate.video https://frigate.video
ysacfanboi 2y ago
One solution is to throw out all those Ring cameras and get local storage solutions. After all, your data should belong to you.
- RIMR 2y ago
  I run a couple local wired cameras with a week of onboard storage that stream to a VPS running DVR software with months of storage. Hardly uses my gigabit connection, and the cloud video is impossible to destroy by anyone with access to the cameras. And it's my own Linux server. Nobody is going to hand anything over to the authorities behind my back.
  - Thorentis 2y ago
    > VPS > nobody will hand anything over Uh, there's these things called subpoenas...
    - anonym29 2y ago
      There's this thing called the internet, it's an interconnected network that allows people in one jurisdiction, say, the United States, to access servers in another jurisdiction, say, Russia, who is well-known to not cooperate with international law enforcement. Get an American court to issue a subpoena for the data on my Russian dedi. The judge and prosecutor will die of old age before they get so much as a boilerplate response in a Cyrillic alphabet.
      - chatmasta 2y ago
        You gotta find a Russian dedi that is unwilling to respond to subpoenas but also secure enough not to be compromised by the NSA, who presumably has an ongoing operation to monitor “sketchy hosts” and poke holes in them by signing up, testing the internal management infrastructure, etc…
        anonym29 2y ago
kkfx 2y ago
If someone really have safety wifi cam... It's would be just natural selection. BTW cam have only one purpose, alerting. 99% of the time having evidence is useless, as a deterrence it's almost the same. They are effective only to alert a distant owner "something is happening in your property" and IF wired and well disposed get a chance to see what's wrong an instant before the shiny system die. Marginally they are requested for some insurances, at least to lower their price.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
egberts1 2y ago
Standalone, VLAN over PoE 4K camera is next to impossible to find. Offline, selfhosted NVR coupled with private VPN for status/notification is the only way to go. Bonus if self-hosting on your own VPS for backup viewing (also thru private VPN).
wkyleg 2y ago
I wonder if anyone uses Flipper Zeros for things like this yet. Cameras, garage doors, radio activated gates are usually very insecure. They were not built under the assumption that thieves could hack RFID devices easily. I don't want this to happen but it's kind of cool in a cyberpunk dystopia kind of way. https://flipperzero.one https://flipperzero.one
- anonym29 2y ago
  The flipper zero is an FCC-approved toy with an itty bitty teeny tiny subset of the capabilities of proper wide-band SDR kit, e.g. HackRF One. This isn't due to firmware locks that can be jailbroken - there is no wide-band SDR hardware present. This is just a collection of a small handful of narrow-band SDR chips. Neither serious threat actors nor corporate red teams waste their time with such trivial things.
  - etrautmann 2y ago
    Sure, but plenty of consumer tech is vulnerable to trivial attacks.
    - throwup238 2y ago
      Yeah I don’t care about serious threat actors, I just want to borrow my neighbors’ stuff at my whim.
    - plugger 2y ago
      While this is true, the Flipper Zero doesn't have wifi radios or an SDR that can transmit in the wifi frequency ranges. OOB it's impossible to jam wifi with with the Flipper.
- 3np 2y ago
  RFID cameras...?
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
mbrumlow 2y ago
Good thing my stuff is hard wired, and the video is stored locally in a protected isolated area.
methou 2y ago
I thought PoE in surveillance cameras are common, I though wrong.
dante4151 2y ago
[dead]

27 points by Bluestein 2y ago

djohnston 2y ago

Alternative solution- DA could actually start prosecuting theft.

anonym29 2y ago
[flagged]
netsharc 2y ago
I DDG'ed "police shortage after covid" and these 2 articles support my belief that it's real: [1] [2]. [2] says hiring in 2023 is back up, but they're not out of the woods yet. It feels like the breakdown of social trust got worsened by the pandemic, and it has far-reaching effects. There's probably also emboldened many who've noticed we don't live in a police state, and getting away with crime (like surging an Apple Store with your friends) is actually possible. Of course people who resort to crime aren't the smartest to begin with, e.g. they don't know that stolen Apple devices will just be software-bricked... 1) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-hiring-crisis-rcna103600 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/us-experiencing-police-... 2) https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-hiring-us-increases-2023-years-decline-survey-shows-rcna149749 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-officer-hiring-u... Edit to add: and the pandemic has also emboldened racist idiots like sibling comment saying "Stop being racist /s".

batch12 2y ago

I wonder what took them so long. Now, cameras I understand. Disarming an alarm via deauthing sounds implausible unless these panels are complete garbage. I have seen 'advanced' panels from alarm companies though that are simply an Android app +GPIO so I guess anything is possible...

Bluestein 2y ago
> Android app +GPIO Ouch, right? Whatever happened to embedded-systems, aeronautics-quality software?
- p_j_w 2y ago
  Aeronautics quality software is expensive.
- mouse_ 2y ago
  Turns out most people will pay the same price for white label Android hardware.

teamspirit 2y ago

Glad all my cameras are hard wired. I do need to look into off-site video recording though. Dream scenario: a home assistant automation that automatically uploads video when an alarm is triggered.

Bluestein 2y ago
... and an AI-driven "warning shots" turret :)
Joel_Mckay 2y ago
Many FOSS programs have been around for ages: https://zoneminder.com/ https://zoneminder.com/ Having everything hardwired has its own set of issues. It is often better to have both a working visible "decoy wifi" kit people will identify/jam with ease, and a covert "Casino" 8k pin-hole option people will not be able to scan. Just remember mantraps (bastion double fire-doors/cages etc.) are usually illegal in most jurisdictions, and crackheads are unhealthy for the pet crocodiles anyway. =3
- teamspirit 2y ago
  Appreciate it. I’m currently using Frigate[0] as my nvr. Regarding the off-site upload, I just have to make time to do it. A decoy nest camera sounds like a good idea though! [0] https://frigate.video https://frigate.video

ysacfanboi 2y ago

One solution is to throw out all those Ring cameras and get local storage solutions. After all, your data should belong to you.

RIMR 2y ago
I run a couple local wired cameras with a week of onboard storage that stream to a VPS running DVR software with months of storage. Hardly uses my gigabit connection, and the cloud video is impossible to destroy by anyone with access to the cameras. And it's my own Linux server. Nobody is going to hand anything over to the authorities behind my back.
- Thorentis 2y ago
  > VPS > nobody will hand anything over Uh, there's these things called subpoenas...
  - anonym29 2y ago
    There's this thing called the internet, it's an interconnected network that allows people in one jurisdiction, say, the United States, to access servers in another jurisdiction, say, Russia, who is well-known to not cooperate with international law enforcement. Get an American court to issue a subpoena for the data on my Russian dedi. The judge and prosecutor will die of old age before they get so much as a boilerplate response in a Cyrillic alphabet.
    - chatmasta 2y ago
      You gotta find a Russian dedi that is unwilling to respond to subpoenas but also secure enough not to be compromised by the NSA, who presumably has an ongoing operation to monitor “sketchy hosts” and poke holes in them by signing up, testing the internal management infrastructure, etc…
      - anonym29 2y ago

kkfx 2y ago

If someone really have safety wifi cam... It's would be just natural selection. BTW cam have only one purpose, alerting. 99% of the time having evidence is useless, as a deterrence it's almost the same. They are effective only to alert a distant owner "something is happening in your property" and IF wired and well disposed get a chance to see what's wrong an instant before the shiny system die. Marginally they are requested for some insurances, at least to lower their price.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

egberts1 2y ago

Standalone, VLAN over PoE 4K camera is next to impossible to find. Offline, selfhosted NVR coupled with private VPN for status/notification is the only way to go. Bonus if self-hosting on your own VPS for backup viewing (also thru private VPN).

wkyleg 2y ago

I wonder if anyone uses Flipper Zeros for things like this yet. Cameras, garage doors, radio activated gates are usually very insecure. They were not built under the assumption that thieves could hack RFID devices easily. I don't want this to happen but it's kind of cool in a cyberpunk dystopia kind of way. https://flipperzero.one https://flipperzero.one

anonym29 2y ago
The flipper zero is an FCC-approved toy with an itty bitty teeny tiny subset of the capabilities of proper wide-band SDR kit, e.g. HackRF One. This isn't due to firmware locks that can be jailbroken - there is no wide-band SDR hardware present. This is just a collection of a small handful of narrow-band SDR chips. Neither serious threat actors nor corporate red teams waste their time with such trivial things.
- etrautmann 2y ago
  Sure, but plenty of consumer tech is vulnerable to trivial attacks.
  - throwup238 2y ago
    Yeah I don’t care about serious threat actors, I just want to borrow my neighbors’ stuff at my whim.
  - plugger 2y ago
    While this is true, the Flipper Zero doesn't have wifi radios or an SDR that can transmit in the wifi frequency ranges. OOB it's impossible to jam wifi with with the Flipper.
3np 2y ago
RFID cameras...?

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

mbrumlow 2y ago

Good thing my stuff is hard wired, and the video is stored locally in a protected isolated area.

methou 2y ago

I thought PoE in surveillance cameras are common, I though wrong.

dante4151 2y ago

[dead]